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France ends gas heaters subsidies

reuters.com

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Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#61

Post by DoingIsLearning »

ForgotIdAgain wrote: post #51
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fearmongering. How much of Europe's natural gas consumption is used as fertilizer feedstock? Europe has plenty of alternative gas sources from Algeria to Norway, all the way to LNG. The only benefit of Russia was geographic proximity to the baltic and central europe countries and their price point. The main reason Russia's gas made sense in Europe was the transition of Coal Plants to NG plants (which is itsel…

Algeria cannot readily provides ressources https://www.spglobal.com/commodity-insights/en/market-insigh... and it seems it will be hit hard as all of north africa by the end of ukraine and russia grain export and drought affecting agriculture. Norway looks to be a more stable source https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Beginning-Of-... But there was another source that I can't seem to find anymore that indi…

> Algeria cannot readily provides ressources

Algeria already provides gas to most of Southern Europe, it is the 5th largest gas producer in the world.

> another source that I can't seem to find anymore that indicates that norway gas reserves are not that great.

Norway is 6th largest NG produce in the world and yields a cubic output equivalent to a quarter of Russia's output.

The point is a very large investment/infrastructure rollout will come around to pluck gas dependency from Russia, it will happen either by alternative sources or eliminating the need for NG in specific applications.

The cost issue is no longer on the table, the European block has woken up, this is a geo-political issue now, economics has been relegated.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#62

Post by paganel »

yourusername wrote: post #19
1ris wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so very sick of this kind of comment. "Sure we could prepare for the seemingly imminent WW3 and literally save the world in the process. But are we sure we want to? cAn We aFfoRd iT?" If you want social redistribution, implement redistribution. Do cash handouts. But don't fuck up other field of politics. These special interests corrupt everything. If you want to solve a problem, tackle it. Don't play "over gang"…

I don't think anyone disagrees that moving away from hydrocarbons is a good thing. The contention is that this shock to move away more quickly is good. The lower half of incomes are really hurting. Our government (NL) is doing some quick fixes but it won't nearly compensate everything and according to the planning agencies we are looking at the biggest drop in spending power in over 40 years. That hurts if you were j…

Most of the solar cells are produced in China. China is not a democracy.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#63

Post by dtech »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #43

When I lived in France, gas-powered "heating mushrooms" were a common sight in most restaurants and cafés. They basically generate radiation heat so people can comfortably sit outdoors in the early spring / late autumn months. I always thought that this seemed like a capital waste of energy, basically "heating" an unenclosed outdoor space. In the grand scheme of things those heaters probably don't make much of a dent…

There's occasional calls to ban them in NL, but it's so contentious that's it not worth the political capital compared to the energy they waste.

Luckily I see infrared heaters more and more which fulfil the same role but are much more efficient, and with the current energy prices the financial incentives might be good enough that places replace them voluntarily.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#64

Post by bkor »

hnlmorg wrote: post #58
saiya-jin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially in such a situation that status quo is directly financing army of dictator who openly states that all Europe all the way to the Atlantic ocean should be demilitarized, denuked and 'neutral', ie free for grab to anybody, but absolutely definitely maybe not by him. And as we saw in past few weeks he properly walks his talks, so its either acting or being weak and stupid.

It's neither. It's a negotiation tactic. Make an unreasonable demand so that the concessions you actually want are met. In this case it's Ukraine to be demilitarized. All of the aggression on Ukrainian can be traced back to them moving closer to the EU, NATO, and putting western hardware on Ukrainian soil. It a bit like how America would panic if Russia put military hardware in Mexico. Basically Putin is trying to cr…

> All of the aggression on Ukrainian can be traced back to them moving closer to the EU, NATO, and putting western hardware on Ukrainian soil.

That's what Russian propaganda keeps saying. But they ignore the huge amounts of gas that was found in the region of Ukraine that was annexed by Russia. Further, Ukraine gave back their nuclear weapons. Meaning, Ukraine already acted to demilitarize.

Ukraine moving closer to EU and NATO can be traced back to Ukraine finding huge gas reserves in 2012 and Russia attacking Ukraine in 2014.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#65

Post by skywal_l »

agumonkey wrote: post #52
heyyeah wrote: post #7

I'm working on a project for France to rollout virtual power plant flexibility with domestic electric heating. We get pressure to rapidly increase the rollout now. Let me know if you want to join us!

old.reddit.com/r/france would probably be thrilled if you made a thread or an AMA

I don't get the enthusiasm. It's just the old IoT radiator controller. Am I missing something here?

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#66

Post by rich_sasha »

paganel wrote: post #60
rich_sasha wrote: post #2

The thing about Europe weaning itself off Russian hydrocarbons is that it was going to happen anyway, with all the green targets etc. It might as well happen a bit more quickly. Especially so in France, which already has massive carbon-free electricity sources.

> It might as well happen a bit more quickly. This sounds a bit rich, I mean, many of us here in Europe don't have the financial resources to just shrug this off as "it might as well happen now than in 10 years from now". I agree though with the take on France, they're one of the few countries in Europe who can afford to make that move right now (at least on paper, I don't know the details of their electrical and pow…

In the UK, cost of running an air-source heat pump was on par with a gas boiler; now, I'd imagine, gas boiler is more expensive. France IIRC has cheaper electricity, so the imbalance is even greater.

So this seems like exactly the right approach: the state is shifting subsidies to the cleaner source, doing what should be done anyway.

I agree affordability is an issue, and the state should step in where necessary.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#67

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #43

When I lived in France, gas-powered "heating mushrooms" were a common sight in most restaurants and cafés. They basically generate radiation heat so people can comfortably sit outdoors in the early spring / late autumn months. I always thought that this seemed like a capital waste of energy, basically "heating" an unenclosed outdoor space. In the grand scheme of things those heaters probably don't make much of a dent…

> I always thought that this seemed like a capital waste of energy, basically "heating" an unenclosed outdoor space.

If we're on the topic of nations wasting energy, let's talk about the US (no hate, just pointing out the facts).

I was shocked to see Las Vegas casinos on the strip keeping all the doors open while running the AC at full blast to have 22C in the middle of the desert, basically outdoor. Single pane windows in Miami that don't even close properly and have no outdoor blinds to not let all the sun heat in the house and instead vent it out via the AC, and a general level of poor building insulation that would be illegal in most of Europe. Plus, 4 way stop signs at many intersections causing vehicles to consume unnecessary fuel, tires and brake pads with the accompanying fine dust that comes with it.

It all seemed mad to me.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#68

Post by agumonkey »

skywal_l wrote: post #65
agumonkey wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

old.reddit.com/r/france would probably be thrilled if you made a thread or an AMA

I don't get the enthusiasm. It's just the old IoT radiator controller. Am I missing something here?

Heh, I commented before reading, it seems it's simpler than I expected too

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#69

Post by hnlmorg »

bkor wrote: post #64
hnlmorg wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's neither. It's a negotiation tactic. Make an unreasonable demand so that the concessions you actually want are met. In this case it's Ukraine to be demilitarized. All of the aggression on Ukrainian can be traced back to them moving closer to the EU, NATO, and putting western hardware on Ukrainian soil. It a bit like how America would panic if Russia put military hardware in Mexico. Basically Putin is trying to cr…

> All of the aggression on Ukrainian can be traced back to them moving closer to the EU, NATO, and putting western hardware on Ukrainian soil. That's what Russian propaganda keeps saying. But they ignore the huge amounts of gas that was found in the region of Ukraine that was annexed by Russia. Further, Ukraine gave back their nuclear weapons. Meaning, Ukraine already acted to demilitarize. Ukraine moving closer to E…

> That's what Russian propaganda keeps saying.

Not really. Russian propaganda talk about liberating Ukraine because it is ruled by Nazi's. They talk about themselves as the heroes rather than wanting to destroy Ukraine "just" to create a neural zone.

The gas might be a motivator too but as you said yourself Ukraine was moving closer to EU and NATO before Russia started any hostilities.

Summarizing will always leave some detail out so I'll instead link to a talk that does go in depth into this point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#70

Post by dotancohen »

heyyeah wrote: post #29
johnchristopher wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shot in the dark but... Erwan ?

https://tiko.fr (FR) https://tiko.energy/ (EN) we have our own branded product and we also white label with energy companies

After reading that page in its entirety, I still have no idea what this is.

  > Be an architect of the energy transition
OK, what do I do as an architect? If I'm not university trained, do I still qualify?

  > A unique Home Energy Management System
What is home energy management? Energy - electricity - comes into my house then straight to the fusebox. From there wires to the lights, the refrigerator, the air conditioner, the water heater. Each of those appliances I turn on when I want. Does energy management mean that this system manages when to turn them on?
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