Earlier quoted context omitted.
The license very clearly tells you that you should not assume that the software is "production ready" and that if you do, that's on you. > THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ...
You quote doesn't mean what you think it means. It just means "we will hide the real state of our software because we can, so you can choose to loose valuable time evaluating it now or else more time fixing it later. We could tell exactly how production ready it is, but we choose not to."
My boundaries as an open source developer
61–70 of 251 posts
Re: My boundaries as an open source developer
#62I totally get where they are coming from but it does make it sound like unsupported software. After reading that, I would not use it without completely understanding the code as if I had written it myself (and maybe that's what you should do for every dependency anyway). I would probably look for another open source project to use instead. There seems to be a constant supply of people starting open source projects wh…
Isnt that the point? As in, it allows for the use of some (context-appropriate) open source upstream software to quickly flesh out some idea into an implementation, rather than expending time and effort writing certain code oneself (the user of the open source software). This doesn't absolve the user from the responsibility of eventually writing their own implementation, or alternatively, maintaining, that open source code/library/framework as a part of their overall codebase.
And so I seriously miss the point of where the managing or maintaining of some open source code, to satisfy some other downstream project's requirements, is the responsibility of upstream... again, when downstream uses it they do so to benefit themselves by not having to write or maintain that piece of software, but that comes with risks along with the relevant benefits. As in, its a "dependency" (in the name) for a reason.
I almost see it as bordering on a concept of entitlement to think that someone else (eg the original creator of some software) should spend time and effort fixing issues or adding functionality that benefits some user. Basically, one should always be considering that dependencies at the time of pulling them in are static and provided as is with no contract of maintenance, and that it might provide benefit currently but that there is a very real potential cost to using it in the future.
Re: My boundaries as an open source developer
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re saying no one uses your software whether it’s open or closed, you just got annoying “contributions”. How did you know no one was using it? How would you know if someone was?
No, I didn't say people weren't using the software. I could see that in a lot of different ways: how many people were active on the project site, how many people had forked the project on github, etc. My point was that my reaction to things like feature requests I didn't want to build was a signal that I wasn't interested in building just a user base for the project. If what I were interested in were building a proje…
People can figure out how to build it if they want, it's not your problem or responsibility unless you want it to be.
See Keybase or Signal for instance.
Re: My boundaries as an open source developer
#64Re: My boundaries as an open source developer
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
On GitHub a fork is a lightweight thing. People fork the repo in order to contribute because they can't push to the original repo. It's not like you are philosophically against Emacs and decide to fork it to produce XEmacs.
Just as I don't understand the original comment, I also don't understand yours. You don't need to push to the original repo because open source allows you to make your fork available to others. The developer of the original has a right to decide to accept your changes or not, so I fail to see why it matters that your PR isn't accepted.
> You don't need to push to the original repo because open source allows you to make your fork available to others.
This is simply not true - not all open source software is copyleft. You can have restrictive licensing regarding use and/or distribution and still be open source.
Re: My boundaries as an open source developer
#66Having experienced the “overwhelmed with requests” thing myself, I now find myself thinking anyone who becomes demanding of open source maintainers is not seeing reality. These folks have day jobs, they don’t work for you.
If you’ve implemented my library in a mission critical part of your system, then feel free to fork & fix or pony up the dough. Otherwise you’ll get the update (if it should be updated at all) when/if I have a minute.
This might be a bit hostile but truly, c’mon people.
Re: My boundaries as an open source developer
#67Quoted post unavailable.
Re: My boundaries as an open source developer
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re saying no one uses your software whether it’s open or closed, you just got annoying “contributions”. How did you know no one was using it? How would you know if someone was?
No, I didn't say people weren't using the software. I could see that in a lot of different ways: how many people were active on the project site, how many people had forked the project on github, etc. My point was that my reaction to things like feature requests I didn't want to build was a signal that I wasn't interested in building just a user base for the project. If what I were interested in were building a proje…
That's a neat observation. My theory -- hard to prove -- would be that if you leave the code open for long enough (regardless or not of whether you pay attention to contributions, and how many of them there are), you'll find some keen soul further down the road who finds and repairs some kind of compatibility issue, security/privacy problem, or similar.
> So few users care if a project is open or not that they can safely be ignored as a rounding error.
I can near-guarantee that for users who understand that software can do whatever it wants on their system, within the capabilities of the runtime environment and as instructed, then when those users are provided with the option to be able to see the corresponding code or not, they'll choose to have it available to them. In an enterprise context: it can sway vendor selection.
That's an increasing percentage of users today, I think. Perhaps it was the case a decade or two ago that people thought of software as windowed applications on their desktop; nowadays I reckon that more people have software developers within their extended social networks, and from that exposure they have a little bit more of a sense for how computers and code work.
And in response to one of your parent comments:
> I didn't like that view of myself, so I stopped opening my software.
Totally understandable. Don't forget the fact that you have an opportunity (not a responsibility, by any means) to teach and share code with current and future generations of developers.
They might discover some relevant snippet of yours through code search and find exactly what they need to solve a problem. Perhaps they'll credit you; perhaps they won't (perhaps they won't realize or be in the mindset that it's worthwhile (and/or important) to credit people for their work) - either way you'll have helped someone with their day.
Re: My boundaries as an open source developer
#69I totally get where they are coming from but it does make it sound like unsupported software. After reading that, I would not use it without completely understanding the code as if I had written it myself (and maybe that's what you should do for every dependency anyway). I would probably look for another open source project to use instead. There seems to be a constant supply of people starting open source projects wh…
That's exactly what it is, exactly how it says in the license:
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.