Why does Google use location for language rather than browser settings? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why does Google use location for language rather than browser settings?

#61

Post by Kwpolska » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 1:29 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #40

I built an iOS app once for a Dutch audience. We used the device's language as the app's language, because that makes sense, right? It's the same with the preferred language in a browser, right? Wrong; we got complaints from users that their app was in English instead of Dutch. Even though their device was set to English or another unsupported language. We begrudgingly added an app specific language preference. I rep…

All my devices are set to English. But my bank’s app is in Polish (using the app-specific override), partly because their English translation is mediocre, but also because I’d rather not do something dumb with my money due to a mistranslation/misunderstanding/different interpretation. Same goes for other local experiences. eg. takeway.com — the restaurant menus would likely be in Polish anyway (though I can see some translated ones as well).

Re: Why does Google use location for language rather than browser settings?

#62

Post by occamrazor » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 1:29 PM UTC

southerntofu wrote: post #11

jakub_g wrote: post #4

The article talks about Microsoft, and boy, it's even more terrible in some respects: for example, language of some Office tools like Excel is bound to the organization ! I worked for a French company, and I was forced to use web Excel in French, including keyboard shortcuts being FR-specific ("ctrl-g" for "bold" - "grossir"). I had my language set to English everywhere in browser, OS, MS profile, Office profile etc.…

> ("ctrl-g" for "bold" - "grossir"). Just nitpicking, but "g" stands for "gras", a literal translation of "bold" in the context of typography. > I remember some HN user from Switzerland saying that IIRC either his IP is being moved around in geoIP databases between Swiss regions And that's why assigning users to specific services/servers/translations depending on IP is the worst kind of evil. Please let us choose the…

Nitpicking your nitpick: “gras” means “fat” and, only in a typographical context, “bold”.

Re: Why does Google use location for language rather than browser settings?

#63

Post by makeitdouble » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 1:29 PM UTC

Arnt wrote: post #30

This doesn't even consider the possibility that location might be a more accurate indication of what language(s) the human user knows/prefers language than the browser setting is. Which it may or may not be. But I'm shocked by the headline, "Why does Google get internationalization wrong?" that just presume that Google hasn't collected data on this. After all, Google is famous for data collected and data-driven decis…

> After all, Google is famous for data collected and data-driven decisions. Remember that "41 shades of blue" story?

Data (metrics really) isn’t the end all be all, and in particular the decisions resulting from the data is not bound to be good.

As you say, Google is famous for data-driven decisions, and for instance android couldn’t become the top rated smartphone OS. Their shopping property couldn’t overcome competition despite unfair positioning, their social network couldn’t survive despite all the effort put in it.

Looking at all their failures, why should we assume that here they made the best choice, when at an individual level we see it as deeply wrong ?

Re: Why does Google use location for language rather than browser settings?

#64

Post by TonyTrapp » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

The article mentions DHL. Which is another hilarious case if you dig deeper: I am in Germany but my browser's language is set to English, like the author's. dhl.com - the international website - automatically assumes that I want the German translation (like in the author's case), but dhl.de - the local, German website - respects my browser setting and serves content in English! This is completely upside-down :)

Re: Why does Google use location for language rather than browser settings?

#65

Post by tommypalm » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

metafunctor wrote: post #12

My vote goes to the “Org Too Big, Nobody Cares” explanation. Or, perhaps, just the blissful America-centric ignorance about how there are regions in the world with multiple official languages. Haven't checked this recently, but a while ago Google Maps was still serving street names in a random language (the first name in alphabetical ordering), for streets which have names in multiple languages.

I listened to a Podcast and one of the hosts was a British guy living in America. He had to speak in an American accent to his Xbox One in order for it to understand him. It seemed the voice recognition was based on your location setting and not independently configurable.

Re: Why does Google use location for language rather than browser settings?

#66

Post by m_st » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 1:31 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #40

I built an iOS app once for a Dutch audience. We used the device's language as the app's language, because that makes sense, right? It's the same with the preferred language in a browser, right? Wrong; we got complaints from users that their app was in English instead of Dutch. Even though their device was set to English or another unsupported language. We begrudgingly added an app specific language preference. I rep…

I'm in a similar boat as you, Switzerland is multi language (German, French and Italian) and quite a few users (including myself) use English as system language. Luckily by now you can change the language of iOS applications in the settings app. Though guess what... no one knows or finds that setting. So yes, it's best to let the user decide just as you write.

Re: Why does Google use location for language rather than browser settings?

#67

Post by black_puppydog » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 1:31 PM UTC

Having moved country twice I used to get very upset by this. Now though, I have just given up on google. They seem to have no interest (and no incentive, for lack of un-buy-out-able competition) to improve this. I mean, apart from the occasional vacation, how much of their userbase are really changing location regularly, right? And do those people have any real choice to opt out of using the shitty product anyhow?

They still regularly show me map search results relevant to my place from 8 years ago. They still randomly switch me to this or that language based on VPN usage or such. Feels like a big middle finger that they haven't even attempted to solve this over the last 10 years or so since I first started noticing this.

At least for search, I have recently switched to Kagi (based on a recommendation from here on HN) and haven't looked back. It's been... *checks mails* Oh, since new year's. Longer than any of my DuckDuckGo streaks.

I honestly didn't expect this to stick, but once Kagi goes out of beta I think I'd subscribe if the price point is right. It's so refreshing to get good search results with no BS. And if something bad creeps in (which happened once so far, a StackOverflow SEO site) I can just block that page from ever showing up in my results again.

So yeah, I use gmail & calendar for work on a separate account, and youtube privately. Apart from that, I avoid their products. Most of my apps on android are from f-droid, I open the play store a couple of times a year. It's just not worth the hassle, and that doesn't even get into the whole privacy & market dominance behaviour.

Re: Why does Google use location for language rather than browser settings?

#68

Post by rescbr » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 1:31 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #40

I built an iOS app once for a Dutch audience. We used the device's language as the app's language, because that makes sense, right? It's the same with the preferred language in a browser, right? Wrong; we got complaints from users that their app was in English instead of Dutch. Even though their device was set to English or another unsupported language. We begrudgingly added an app specific language preference. I rep…

And then there's the technical audience: I use all my devices in English, as usually the translations are subpar. On the other hand, I expect the local apps (ie, banking, some e-gov app, your package shipping example, etc) to be in my native language, as usually, the translations are even worse due to the developer's budget allocated to localization. Conversely, when I'm travelling and need to use some local app (airline, rideshare, taxi, etc) I hope that it is able to at least have some English translation.

Yeah, please offer the option to set the language to the user.

Re: Why does Google use location for language rather than browser settings?

#69

Post by m_st » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 1:33 PM UTC

dan_hawkins wrote: post #35

arepublicadoceu wrote: post #22

My personal papercut is with YouTube. It doesn’t care that: - my browser is in English - that I’m logged in and with English as my language - that my region is set to the U.S. - that I only used English keywords on the search box It still gives me Portuguese results as my geo ip is in Brazil. It’s infuriating.

Same for me here in Denmark for google and gmail - I don't f***g speak Danish!

So the Googlers in Zurich Switzerland should get a Swiss German version. I'm sure they'd fix that soon enough.

Re: Why does Google use location for language rather than browser settings?

#70

Post by justinmayer » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 1:33 PM UTC

I met one-on-one with Google’s senior leadership in 2000 to talk about their internationalization efforts. This was very early in their trajectory, so I even sat down with Larry Page and chatted with him for half an hour.

A year or two later I’m in Tokyo and talk to a new Google product manager based there. I tell her it is insane that Google serves me Japanese pages on my English-configured PowerBook just because I am in Japan. It doesn’t matter that I read Japanese just fine… Making this determination purely based on my IP address is madness, I tell her.

Over two decades later, nothing has changed. Each year I spend several months abroad, and this is one of the most infuriating experiences I encounter. Google is the offender that frustrates me the most, but they are far from the only company to engage in this abhorrent practice. I am tempted to create an Internationalization Wall of Shame just to embarrass the companies that do this. (Not that I expect them to care.)

Why do they do this? My theory has always been that in any given country, there are far more native speakers with misconfigured computing environments than there are visitors and nomadic folks like me. So it’s merely a numbers game: I may be frustrated, but at least Google and other companies aren’t losing business when folks with misconfigured computers close the tab because they got a page served to them in, say, English instead of their native language.

I can’t say for certain whether this is the actual reason for this behavior. What I can say, however, is that I absolutely loathe this practice and actively avoid doing business with any company that uses geo-IP location to serve me pages specific to that locale. If this frustrates you as well, be sure to vote with your feet!