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Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

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Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#61
post #6

Wozniak does everything to go down in history as a supposedly unrecognized genius. Every time he makes headlines it is the same story with a slightly different twist.

You're getting downvoted, but I see where you're coming from. I have noticed as well that, perhaps a decade or so ago?, Woz began a sort of "recognition tour" where I would see him show up at an arcade game expo or vintage computer festivals and repeat a kind of history of his life. At the time, Jobs was alive and getting all the accolades (and Apple was flying high), so it seemed justified in my mind that Woz should…

Maybe Woz was just a social guy who was getting a lot of invitations to such events, as the vintage/retro movement grew? He certainly appears to enjoy talking about things he did in the past, in a way that Jobs did not.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#62
post #2

What really set Steve Jobs apart is that he never should have gotten to where he did. I don't mean he didn't deserve it or anything but based on that structures that exist to filter people who attain the positions that he did. By luck, or accident, or raw determination, he became a person in the drivers seat that no one would have chose to put there. He was so much not the person they would have chosen that they kick…

Apple kicked Jobs out, but they acquired NeXT years later because Apple really needed a good OS to replace Classic and Jobs just so happened to have hired some incredibly good OS people and they had built a very strong OS. Apple was also churning through CEOs at the time and losing the ability to innovate on hardware products. They apparently needed someone to revitalize the culture and Jobs, a co-founder, was right there after the acquisition. So it sounds like the choice actually made lots of sense. In fact it seems like it was a very smart move by the board, and I guess the only question was, is Jobs sufficiently mature now to give him another shot.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#63
post #2

What really set Steve Jobs apart is that he never should have gotten to where he did. I don't mean he didn't deserve it or anything but based on that structures that exist to filter people who attain the positions that he did. By luck, or accident, or raw determination, he became a person in the drivers seat that no one would have chose to put there. He was so much not the person they would have chosen that they kick…

Would another Steve Jobs personality have a chance at today's corporate environment?

I have doubts: leadership is a hot iron where laissez faire approaches are favoured. The cite from Kawasaki that he was "unpleasant and always scary" would surely give a today's Steve Jobs a date with HR.

A leader like Steve would be today called "toxic" and probably never promoted at all.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't make Jobs remarkable, it makes him a toxic leader... a textbook one at that. > treated people in ways they felt uncomfortable with and achieved things that people thought were out of reach. The biggest misunderstanding about leadership from people and orgs who don't appreciate that it's a science vs. an art is that to do the impossible, to stretch orgs and do it in unorthodox fashions, that "make peopl…

Your comment is toxic and offensive to me.

Would you care explaining?

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#65

The most impactful class I ever took as a programmer was Theater. Because of theater, I can confidently demonstrate a new feature in front of 150 people, and effectively lead retros and sprint demos. Communication is the most undervalued skill by other engineers, and getting good at it sets you apart far quicker than technical growth alone.

> Communication is the most undervalued skill by other engineers, and getting good at it sets you apart far quicker than technical growth alone. Engineers don’t undervalue this skill, many are just not good at it (and can’t get good at as easily as they can get better with technical skills). It is more of a selection bias in the sense that people who did well technically but were not great communicators would pursue…

I've been interested in whether technical work actually hurts social skills. Maybe not for everyone, but for some. I've found that when I really throw my mind into stuff for extended periods of time, I think my social skills do digress. Maybe it's just in my head.

It also seems like many engineers start neglecting their tech skills and their social skills get better. Of course, that's often part of a concerted effort to improve... but often it does seem that the technical skills suffer at least somewhat. Sometimes it doesn't even seem that they're doing different work (more management stuff).

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#66
It's always a combination of capabilities and chance and adaptation. Without Mike Markkula there would have been no first Apple. The early docs are fascinating as well

https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/20...

Oh, and by the way, OS 9 Platinum was the high point of interface design. :)

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#67
post #2

What really set Steve Jobs apart is that he never should have gotten to where he did. I don't mean he didn't deserve it or anything but based on that structures that exist to filter people who attain the positions that he did. By luck, or accident, or raw determination, he became a person in the drivers seat that no one would have chose to put there. He was so much not the person they would have chosen that they kick…

The Apple (80s-90s) that we know of became a powerhouse under John Sculley. It was no longer a garage startup and was now a billion dollar company and had to be run like a billion dollar company. Even in his bio Jobs admittedly brought in Sculley from Pepsi to mentor him on running this large tech company. What he didn't anticipate was the board demoting him, the student, for his teacher. He would go on to learn those valuable leadership skills with Pixar and NeXT.

We see this all the time in unicorns. The founder is no longer the right person as it transitions to bluechip and it takes a different skillset. In my mind Cook and Sculley are equivalent, they are operations people able to run large startups independent of their egos and feelings. Larry and Sergei did something similar when they brought aboard Eric Schmidt to run Google.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#68
post #2

What really set Steve Jobs apart is that he never should have gotten to where he did. I don't mean he didn't deserve it or anything but based on that structures that exist to filter people who attain the positions that he did. By luck, or accident, or raw determination, he became a person in the drivers seat that no one would have chose to put there. He was so much not the person they would have chosen that they kick…

No, it doesn't make Jobs remarkable, it makes him a toxic leader... a textbook one at that. > treated people in ways they felt uncomfortable with and achieved things that people thought were out of reach. The biggest misunderstanding about leadership from people and orgs who don't appreciate that it's a science vs. an art is that to do the impossible, to stretch orgs and do it in unorthodox fashions, that "make peopl…

I recall Google in the early days was, not jobs level hostile, but rather combative to the point the founders later regretted it. The Netscape crew got crushed by Microsoft. Despite Jobs allegedly shredding his teams, they kept producing hit after hit for him.

You’re not really making your point whatsoever. You’re just vaguely alluding to unspecified science.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#69
Shared it before in a past thread. Sounds relevant here, in the context of the comments on Steve Jobs personality and their relationship...

"...This is what Steve Jobs did about the fact of how he tricked his best friend into working all night long for several days and then cheating him out of his paycheck. This proved to be only the first offense in a long litany of his penchant for pettiness and pointless cruelty.

The friend that I am talking about is Steve Wozniak, him and Jobs were working at Atari, one of the first video game consoles which revolutionized the video game market. The owner of Atari at the time was its actual founder by the name of Nolan Bushnell.

The first game that came out was “Pong,” a classic which many people remember. Due to its high success, Bushnell thought of making a sequel that would be only a single-player and call it “Breakout” in 1975.

...For this project, Bushnell was thinking of tasking Steve Jobs to be in charge and take care of the project. Jobs was considered (at the time) a low-level Atari technician with huge potential. As this game was expected to be much better than its predecessor, Jobs recruited Steve Wozniak, who was known on the market as the better engineer. ..

Jobs and Wozniak had been friends for quite some time at that point. They both were working towards the Apple 1 which would follow to become the most iconic computer around the world for four long years so they got to spend a lot of time together.

The way that Atari worked was by offering a monetary bonus for every chip fewer than fifty that was used when building a game. Wozniak was ecstatic when Jobs asked him to help with this big project.

This is when Jobs started to lie to Wozniak in order to use him for his expertise. He told Wozniak that the deadline was four days and that he had to use as few chips as possible. The truth is that Jobs was given a whole month for this project, not four days.

Jobs never told Wozniak about the bonus for using fewer chips and the four-day deadline was self-imposed by Jobs, as he needed to get back to his commune farm to help bring in the apple harvest. It is imperative to mention (for those who are not aware) that Steve Jobs came from a very poor background.

Wozniak was working for Hewlett-Packard at the time as well, so he had to balance his main job as well as this project. So he would end up going to his job in the day time and spending most of the night working on “Breakout”. The only thing that Steve did was implementing the required chips, making sure that there were less than fifty chips. Their herculean efforts succeeded, as they finished the game in four days and only using forty-five chips.

When payday came, Steve Jobs only gave Wozniak half the pay, he kept the rest of his pay as well as the bonus for himself. Wozniak only found out about this ten years later..."

https://historyofyesterday.com/steve-jobss-dark-past-55a9804...

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a supposedly unrecognized genius I think his floppy disk controller for the Apple II was pretty widely recognized as real stroke of genius. >The Apple II disk controller, designed six months after the Apple II itself was complete, was Steve Wozniak's crowning achievement. His five chip disk controller card out-performed competitive controllers that were four times as expensive by shifting most of the responsibiliti…

And the floppy drives for the C64 were too, a whole computer that could do magic things on it's own. And dozen of other magic things, like Sophie Wilson who I admire most and who did magic things with the Acorns (and of course ARM). The difference is that those people don't spend decades on bad mouthing others. Also the difference is Sophie Wilson does astonishing things all the way until today. Everyone says Wozniak…

Wasn't the C64's 1541 disk drive notoriously rubbish?

Not sure I'd use it as an example of something "magic".

It cost more than the computer it came with and was almost as slow as a tape deck. For no better reason than the Commodore marketing department thought it should be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_1541#Throughput_and_...

IMHO Woz is genius, Jobs was probably a genius too of a different kind but in the end it doesn't really matter.

To paraphrase Aurelius badly, you'll be lucky if anyone remembers you long after you're dead and even then they won't remember the real "you" anyway. So stop worrying about it.

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