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The Unlicense is an inferior license wrapped in an atrocious name

chrismorgan.info

61–70 of 185 posts

Re: The Unlicense is an inferior license wrapped in an atrocious name

#61
post #19

I wish people would get together to agree upon a public domain alike software license that everyone finds acceptable. That'd mean: * OSI approves it * FSF approves it * Google and other companies with large stakes in FOSS find it acceptable * Github + Gitlab support it in their templates Can we have that?

Is `This work is public domain.` insufficient?

No, no, no, no. Nope. That's enough in US but never enough (like, legally impossible) in Europe or parts of Asia (that's why CC0 has a fallback permissive license).

Re: The Unlicense is an inferior license wrapped in an atrocious name

#62
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0BSD? https://opensource.org/licenses/0BSD

Not an alike license.

...isn't that literally the opposite of public domain? You can't have it both be public domain with no copyright and ALSO use copyright to enforce what people do with their copies of it.

Re: The Unlicense is an inferior license wrapped in an atrocious name

#63
post #52

The way people and organizations stand in the way of public domain releases is beyond rude to the point of genuine evil. My code is just code. It should be possible to let all others read it without obligation. There must be some way to restrain this relentless desire to cocoon everything in layers of legal entanglement. It is just code and I as the author desire others to be able to read it. This is not a crazy plot…

Why does the concept of "public domain" actually matter though?

It's clearly a legally frought concept, and nobody actually believes in public domain itself as an ideal (as far as I know), its just seen as a means to an end, the end being a release of all "legal entanglement" upon the work.

If that means is problematic, why not use a less problematic means?

Specifically, there exist licenses that give everyone every possible right that they can be given without needing to invoke public domain at all, and that should be sufficient for anyone who doesn't want to retain their default rights, so why is public domain anything more than a legal dead-end? (ignoring of course that it's still relevant as the eventual end of copyright once someone's been dead for longer than Walt Disney)

Re: The Unlicense is an inferior license wrapped in an atrocious name

#64
post #10

Why do people want public domain software licenses? Just use a proper licence and die at some point. End result is the same without the uncertainty.

I've used CC0 when I want to free downstream users to reuse the code in any context and under any license of their choosing, free from the burden of attribution or preservation of my copyright notice. It's great for code samples.

Re: The Unlicense is an inferior license wrapped in an atrocious name

#65
post #19

I wish people would get together to agree upon a public domain alike software license that everyone finds acceptable. That'd mean: * OSI approves it * FSF approves it * Google and other companies with large stakes in FOSS find it acceptable * Github + Gitlab support it in their templates Can we have that?

Is `This work is public domain.` insufficient?

Yes. At least if you want people who have to talk to lawyers to use the code. Lawyers don't like that. For some anecdotes see this talk https://youtube.com/watch?v=MkJkyMuBm3g (worth the hour, althoug Rob Landley write the same thing on his website too but to lazy to Google that.

Re: The Unlicense is an inferior license wrapped in an atrocious name

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is `This work is public domain.` insufficient?

No, no, no, no. Nope. That's enough in US but never enough (like, legally impossible) in Europe or parts of Asia (that's why CC0 has a fallback permissive license).

I'm curious... if Creative Commons can't even create a public domain license that applies to both US and Europe, then what would it actually take to do so? Seems insane that any system can't accept "this is public domain" as all you need.

Re: The Unlicense is an inferior license wrapped in an atrocious name

#67

I use it and will continue to use it because it most accurately reflects my intentions for my software. If some organization can't comply with it, it's worse for them. They should change, not me.

How does the Unlicense most accurately reflects your intentions? The Unlicense has three different components: grants (paragraph 2), no warranty clause (paragraph 4) and the dedication to the public domain (paragraphs 1 and 3). Everything but the PD dedication is common to other PD-equivalent licenses so I believe you have two intentions:

1. You want the PD dedication whenever it works.

The dedication clause is unfortunately most problematic in that, for example, it never works in jurisdictions where copyright laws are recognized but no actual dedication to the public domain is possible. The complexity of CC0 solely exists to make it effectively PD-equivalent even in such cases.

2. You don't like "lawyer speaks" and prefer shorter licenses.

Okay, unfortunately CC0 is bulky and while legally absurd I can somehow relate to that line of thought. But does that mean the PD dedication clause should exist in the license itself? No! You can easily make a PD-like license by writing your own dedication plus very permissive and short license like zero-clause BSD. In this way your intention to the dedication remains explicit (or even stronger) and you can pick legally safer licenses. Indeed this is my preferred method for the dedication [1].

Also remember, the actual SQLite "license" [2] from which the Unlicense claims to be inspired is not the license. It is just a dedication and words of blessing. The actual license, in case the dedication doesn't work, is available for purchase elsewhere [3]. The Unlicense authors are seemingly ignorant of this fact.

[1] See https://github.com/lifthrasiir/rust-strconv/blob/master/LICE... for the example. (It eventually got into the Rust standard library, hence weird triple licensing.)

[2] https://www.sqlite.org/cgi/src/file?name=LICENSE.md&ci=trunk

[3] https://www.sqlite.org/purchase/license

Re: The Unlicense is an inferior license wrapped in an atrocious name

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, no, no. Nope. That's enough in US but never enough (like, legally impossible) in Europe or parts of Asia (that's why CC0 has a fallback permissive license).

I'm curious... if Creative Commons can't even create a public domain license that applies to both US and Europe, then what would it actually take to do so? Seems insane that any system can't accept "this is public domain" as all you need.

Some places, like Germany, don't recognize a public domain at all.

Re: The Unlicense is an inferior license wrapped in an atrocious name

#69
post #60
post #52

The way people and organizations stand in the way of public domain releases is beyond rude to the point of genuine evil. My code is just code. It should be possible to let all others read it without obligation. There must be some way to restrain this relentless desire to cocoon everything in layers of legal entanglement. It is just code and I as the author desire others to be able to read it. This is not a crazy plot…

I am largely ignorant to license law so forgive this probably basic question If the idea of public domain is clearly established in law should it not be enough to have a license file that simply reads. Everything in this repository is public domain, all contributions to this repository are public domain. Obviously if someone were to submit code stolen from a project under another license it would create an issue. But…

No, I’m some jurisdictions you cannot just give away your rights.

Re: The Unlicense is an inferior license wrapped in an atrocious name

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, no, no. Nope. That's enough in US but never enough (like, legally impossible) in Europe or parts of Asia (that's why CC0 has a fallback permissive license).

I'm curious... if Creative Commons can't even create a public domain license that applies to both US and Europe, then what would it actually take to do so? Seems insane that any system can't accept "this is public domain" as all you need.

> Seems insane that any system can't accept "this is public domain" as all you need.

Except that's exactly (legally, anyways) sane in Europe (not EU, it predates EU). Read about moral rights, and you will learn the complexities of what the US squishes into a single copyright regime.

Note: moral rights was translated from French legal term droits moraux, there's no religious meaning in moral here.

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