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Why enterprise software is bloated

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Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#61

In a lot of companies, feature development trumps optimizing, refactoring or removal of legacy code. Dev: Hey Steve, I'm working on issue #4546, but it just occured to me that that if I could just refactor that one method in SuperFactory it'd make code much cleaner and easier to reuse. Just a quick fix! Manager: No. Work on #4546. Dev: Sure, #4546 will be done soon, but it'd be really easy fix, it just occurred to me…

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Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#62

In a lot of companies, feature development trumps optimizing, refactoring or removal of legacy code. Dev: Hey Steve, I'm working on issue #4546, but it just occured to me that that if I could just refactor that one method in SuperFactory it'd make code much cleaner and easier to reuse. Just a quick fix! Manager: No. Work on #4546. Dev: Sure, #4546 will be done soon, but it'd be really easy fix, it just occurred to me…

Left a job in 2020 over exactly that. Our customers loved when we could fix/build features in a week, but after 18 months the bloat made it impossible to ship a new feature in the same month. I actually went behind my manager's back and did a full re-write (~25k sloc down to ~15k) at the 8 month mark, but the 2nd time he put his foot down and said absolutely not. I left within a 6 months of that discussion.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#63
Reminder that the Computer Languages Benchmark Game itself recommends against using it to draw general conclusions about performance of languages in real-world apps: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...

> We are profoundly uninterested in claims that these measurements, of a few tiny programs, somehow define the relative performance of programming languages aka Which programming language is fastest?

Now, I challenge you to find a major bloated software where the main source of overhead is Python interpretation. IME it's always something else, like the surrounding UI framework.

The Office suite is written in C++ and is badly bloated, obviously not because of language execution overhead but because of technical debt, which if that's any indication recommends against using low-level languages.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#64
The article strikes me as being dismissive about accessibility, merely describing it as a legal requirement and source of bloat. For a lot of software, I'd say it's a moral imperative, and that's why it's a legal requirement. I'm afraid that the treatment in this article will encourage developers to ignore accessibility in useful applications that could in principle be accessible, and these applications will then become required for jobs, education, etc., thus erecting new barriers for disabled people. But now that someone has directly linked accessibility to bloat, I guess I should make sure that my own in-development solution for cross-platform GUI accessibility [1] can never be described as bloated.

Edit to add: The article did also mention that accessibility is a must-have feature, though I can't remember now if that bit was there in the original. Sorry if it was.

[1]: https://github.com/AccessKit/accesskit

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#65

In a lot of companies, feature development trumps optimizing, refactoring or removal of legacy code. Dev: Hey Steve, I'm working on issue #4546, but it just occured to me that that if I could just refactor that one method in SuperFactory it'd make code much cleaner and easier to reuse. Just a quick fix! Manager: No. Work on #4546. Dev: Sure, #4546 will be done soon, but it'd be really easy fix, it just occurred to me…

Is this how software development in corporations really works? I'm not a software developer, but I've contributed to some large open source projects and I thought it would be similar. Maybe with the difference that the issues would be raised by a Q/A team or other people in the company instead of random people across the internet.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is just an anecdote, but a good developer wouldn't ask the manager to approve every small refactoring or expect them to understand the importance of "one method in SuperFactory". They would have instead made a judgement call and taken the responsibility of doing the quick fix.

While I agree with you, some managers micromanage and freak out for any change that isn't directly related to doing or fixing X. They will reject the change and it becomes painful to keep working like that because they hold it against you. Toxic workplaces exist.

And in a market where developer skills are in incredibly high demand and a new job can be lined up in a couple of weeks, such workplaces should cease to exist due to lack of developers.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#67
The article didn't mention what I have observed as the worst cause of bloat - what I call the "New Toys" problem.

For example, you need a process to export data every 4 hours, with some visibility of success and failures. I could have written a cron job/scheduled task in 4 hours and be done. What I found instead is Kafka with node.js and couch.db. Yes, for that one export. Not only that the were paying monthly for the Kafka. Soooooo, it got replaced.

I've seen this a lot more in the last 10 years. I call them "stitcher programmers." They are near useless at providing solutions unless they can stitch together some byzantine Frankenstein's monster from existing tech, usually with extreme overkill. On the front end is the worst with React and thousands of dependencies for simple forms.

Right sizing a solution is not in their vocabulary.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#68
post #4

Because every customer needs different features. No one wants to make their workflow follow what the software dictates, they want the software to support the workflow the business uses

This is, I think, why simple things are so difficult to do in large corporations and everythings costs about 10-100x more money than you would expect. Often, it would be much easier to change the processes and workflows than the software.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#69
post #63

Reminder that the Computer Languages Benchmark Game itself recommends against using it to draw general conclusions about performance of languages in real-world apps: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... > We are profoundly uninterested in claims that these measurements, of a few tiny programs, somehow define the relative performance of programming languages aka Which programming language is…

> I challenge you to find a major bloated software where the main source of overhead is Python interpretation

In every piece of non-trivial software I’ve written in python, the main source of overhead has been Python interpretation.

I don’t think it’d be hard at all to meet your challenge.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#70

An important factor is new manager syndrome. You start with some new head honcho somewhere. A CxO, an Enterprise Architect,... These tend to swap every 3 to 5 years. Head honch sees horrible bloat, and decides to Act with some Master Plan. This entails buying some expensive software, deployed by a random external team, that will solve everything. In practice, expensive software tends to barely work. Also, the deploye…

> the deployers run away in 2 weeks tops

Well, they probably didn't run away - they were probably only paid for two weeks tops. The only constant I've ever observed in 30 years of software development is that the people who make decisions think that saving a few thousand dollars in programmer salaries is worth having a business that nobody really understands, that operates at minimal efficiency, and generates unhappy customers. God forbid anybody ever treat highly educated programmers as competent professionals and equal partners in the business.

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