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Caltech's CS interview prep course

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Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#61

Post by shagie »

Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Tech interview discussions always seem to run the same course and hit the same points, so I'll repeat one of mine: What's wrong with the idea of turning the standard Leetcode algorithms interview into a license that only needs to be completed once, or maybe once every 5-8 years, similar to what physicians must undergo? Much more efficient than having to retake it with every single company during an interview cycle.

We tried that once.

https://ncees.org/engineering/pe/software/

But nobody was interested.

https://ncees.org/ncees-discontinuing-pe-software-engineerin...

---

I've interviewed software developers who have on their resume "Oracle Java 8 certified", but aren't able to name three different spots where the static keyword appears in Java or the situations where they'd be used.

There are certainly many possible reasons why someone wouldn't retain that knowledge, but I've encountered far too many candidates claiming mid or senior level experience with "enhanced" resumes and certifications from everywhere that are not able to satisfactory do more than follow instructions (e.g. not able to determine steps needed to complete tasks nor able to solve the larger problems and break them down into tasks).

So, with the resume and certifications not things that I have confidence in, asking those questions to try to figure out if the person is able to approach solving a novel problem is what gets asked. If other companies do the same, then that candidate will likely see similar lines of questions in each place.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#62

Post by someelephant »

Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Tech interview discussions always seem to run the same course and hit the same points, so I'll repeat one of mine: What's wrong with the idea of turning the standard Leetcode algorithms interview into a license that only needs to be completed once, or maybe once every 5-8 years, similar to what physicians must undergo? Much more efficient than having to retake it with every single company during an interview cycle.

For a lot of space-cadet interviewers this would work well. They just want the right answer and aren't thinking about how easy it would be to work on a team with these people.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#63

Post by ignoramous »

dvt wrote: post #3

If you don't think modern interviewing practices are a problem, this should be proof enough. Not only do we have an entire programming book sub-genre dedicated to this nonsense, but now we're also wasting class time on memorizing sorting algorithms. Fantastic. Of course, we're going to see the inevitable arguments that "40% of the people I interview lie on resumes" or "I interviewed this guy once, and he couldn't eve…

> Not only do we have an entire programming book sub-genre dedicated to this nonsense...

Mate, wake up: ~billion dollar "interview prep" start-ups are a thing.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#65

Post by Apocryphon »

shagie wrote: post #61
Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Tech interview discussions always seem to run the same course and hit the same points, so I'll repeat one of mine: What's wrong with the idea of turning the standard Leetcode algorithms interview into a license that only needs to be completed once, or maybe once every 5-8 years, similar to what physicians must undergo? Much more efficient than having to retake it with every single company during an interview cycle.

We tried that once. https://ncees.org/engineering/pe/software/ But nobody was interested. https://ncees.org/ncees-discontinuing-pe-software-engineerin... --- I've interviewed software developers who have on their resume "Oracle Java 8 certified", but aren't able to name three different spots where the static keyword appears in Java or the situations where they'd be used. There are certainly many possible reasons why…

It's interesting how this mirrors the Computer Science GRE subject test being discontinued.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#66

Post by beepbeepnewnew »

fortran77 wrote: post #29
analog31 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Symphonic musician. The first stage is nailing a blind audition, perfectly.

Not anymore! Blind auditions are now a thing of the past: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/arts/music/blind-audition... However, since you can't choose your parents or where you were born, there's little you can do to prepare for the Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity goals. (I could probably get a lift by changing my religion. People with the exact same ethnicity and appearance as me but of a different faith are con…

Even though blind auditions are less and less, I do want to add to analog's point that orchestras don't care about anything except for how well you can nail a huge group of assorted excerpts and whether or not you suffer from anxiety that may affect your performance. Plenty of great musicians just never get a job because they get a lot of anxiety or don't have the patience to practice the same 12 measures of music for 12 years hoping that the audition they takes asks them for that.

Orchestra excerpts are just leetcode for musicians, and just as lacking in testing the real qualities of good workers, artists, and people.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#67

Post by barry-cotter »

Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Tech interview discussions always seem to run the same course and hit the same points, so I'll repeat one of mine: What's wrong with the idea of turning the standard Leetcode algorithms interview into a license that only needs to be completed once, or maybe once every 5-8 years, similar to what physicians must undergo? Much more efficient than having to retake it with every single company during an interview cycle.

> What's wrong with the idea of turning the standard Leetcode algorithms interview into a license that only needs to be completed once, or maybe once every 5-8 years, similar to what physicians must undergo?

How far from this is the A level in Computer Science[1] which should take at minimum 20 weeks full time study for the target 16-18 age group? Or the EdX MicroMaster’s in Data Structures and Algorithms[2]? If any one of the FAANG companies said “Get this qualification and we guarantee you an interview” that would already be massive, never mind skipping one or two steps of the interview process.

[1] https://www.ocr.org.uk/Images/170844-specification-accredite...

The content of this A Level in Computer Science is divided into three components: • Computer systems component (01) contains the majority of the content of the specification and is assessed in a written paper recalling knowledge and understanding. • Algorithms and programming component (02) relates principally to problem solving skills needed by learners to apply the knowledge and understanding encountered in Component 01. • Programming project component (03 or 04) is a practical portfolio based assessment with a task that is chosen by the teacher or learner and is produced in an appropriate programming language of the learner’s or teacher’s choice.

[2] https://www.edx.org/micromasters/ucsandiegox-algorithms-and-...

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#68

Post by giantg2 »

mkl95 wrote: post #40

My career path in tech so far has been junior engineer -> mid level -> senior -> tech lead. As I've progressed through that path, I have had literally no opportunities of applying the stuff I've learnt on HackerRank, save for a couple of interviews. At this point I'm convinced that the focus of those interviews was entirely wrong. Once you pass those tests and get hired, you will be dealing with tons of legacy code r…

I went to an internal job interview about 5 years into working for the company. They were asking me all sorts of textbook questions about defining stuff like polymorphism and explaining some sort algorithms. I bombed. Many of these terms and algorithms had never been used during my 5 years, and I forgot many since they hadn't been used since college.

I wanted to ask the interviewer if they actually use these terms in meetings or used the algorithms, but I didn't. Since it was internal, I already knew the answers would be that they didn't, and I didn't want to appear confrontational.

I was internal, a high performer on my team at the time, and you're going to ask me this useless stuff?

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#69

Post by pthread_t »

paradygm wrote: post #49
dvt wrote: post #3

If you don't think modern interviewing practices are a problem, this should be proof enough. Not only do we have an entire programming book sub-genre dedicated to this nonsense, but now we're also wasting class time on memorizing sorting algorithms. Fantastic. Of course, we're going to see the inevitable arguments that "40% of the people I interview lie on resumes" or "I interviewed this guy once, and he couldn't eve…

> I've told at least 5 or 6 companies that wanted to white-board me to suck it. It's honestly insulting that I'm forced to white-board when I have two books with my name on them (published by Apress), contributions to Golang (small commits, but they still got me in the AUTHORS file), and OSS projects with hundreds of stars on GitHub That is all commendable but none of that tells me if I can work with you. When I inte…

> a collaborative opportunity to see how the interviewee thinks.

In principle, this sounds great. In reality, if the interviewee fails to come up with the correct/optimal solution for the duration of the interview, they are going to be rejected.

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