Breaking rainbow takes a weekend on a laptop

It’s all good. I take it respectfully. Let me try again and I mean this entirely in good faith. I don’t think you’re an NSA shill as I think my other comments were taken by random readers. I do think you’re just mistaken and like many Americans (myself included) we want to believe in our institutions. You seem like a reasonable person, and I meant no slight towards you.

My read is that you asked what is the secret key with the implication that if they have it they should reveal it. No one who has it would do that to settle an argument. Well maybe someone would but it seems like an unreasonable ask. Absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence (of the theft of the secret key for the q parameter for Dual EC), right?

If Dual EC didn’t have a backdoor, no could steal the secret key that NSA uses to exploit it. One is more secure than the other, and I take your comment as requiring the secret key for the corresponding Q to leak for that design to be a bad idea that is insecure. Again, I don’t think that is a reasonable standard of evidence. We know people steal stuff from NSA and we cannot expect that they will drop the secret key on hacker news to decide that it was a bad idea in the first place.

NOBUS is a fantasy idea - is there even a reasonable proposal that isn’t less secure than the same system without a backdoor? Even with ECDLP in play, if a CRQC is really in our future, Dual EC isn’t a forever NOBUS backdoor. If we knew how to do public key cryptography that could last 100+ years and we thought it was also post-quantum, maybe a backdoor wouldn’t weaken the system overall. But that’s a lot of maybes…

Yeah! Lesson learned. Thanks for hearing me about my intentions though, I appreciate it and wow, third rail touched!

That isn’t a fair summary but I take your point.

I pointed out two specific cryptographic backdoors. One follows from your premise - a regular person can’t just bust Dual EC because it is based on a hard problem. That’s true for now but it’s also the exception as far as I can tell. Other backdoors by NSA don’t all share that property.

The other example of an NSA backdoor is the DES replacement known as the PX-1000cr cipher. It is claimed also to be a backdoor from NSA but by your framing, it can’t be an NSA backdoor because it was broken by Stef on his laptop without much of a budget. Your framing suggests that because someone found it and broke it, it can’t be an NSA NOBUS backdoor. But as I pointed out even the Dual EC backdoor has limits and so your standard seems unreasonable.

Then there is DES itself which was intentionally weakened by NSA. IBM wanted 64 bits, NSA wanted fewer bits and at the time, Hellman said DES should have twice the bits. Between Hellman and NSA, I guess we know who won.

NSA doesn’t only want NOBUS backdoors. They want almost anything that gets them plaintext first in a reliable manner, and things related to long term security come a far distant second, if at all, as we see in the analysis of the PX-1000cr research.

Also yeah, having a quantum computer will give everyone the secret key for the Q in Dual EC. Recording that traffic now will probably have pay off for non NSA adversaries later if a CRQC is really coming. Who knows if that will happen, but we know NSA is exploiting fear of that happening to push for new cryptography that isn’t a hybrid design including some kind of ECC.