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A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

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Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#61

Russian citizens like me will be hit hardest, as usual. Large institutions and wealthy individuals will find another ways to transfer money. Costs of goods and services will rise.

I have a VPS I bought at OVH to act as a VPN, does it mean I won't be able to access information freely on the Internet if SWIFT is cut (I use a Russian bank account)? Or maybe I can open a bank account in some neutral country?

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#62
post #49

Russian citizens like me will be hit hardest, as usual. Large institutions and wealthy individuals will find another ways to transfer money. Costs of goods and services will rise.

I was watching a mainstream news report (I'll try to find it and edit my comment) where the host and the guest were talking about the impact of economic sanctions. They said it's not intended to stop Russia, but to inflict pain on the citizens, so that they citizens will turn against leadership. In that moment, it really clicked for me how much normal people are pawns to be used in much larger games. And there appare…

[deleted]

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#64
post #49

Russian citizens like me will be hit hardest, as usual. Large institutions and wealthy individuals will find another ways to transfer money. Costs of goods and services will rise.

I was watching a mainstream news report (I'll try to find it and edit my comment) where the host and the guest were talking about the impact of economic sanctions. They said it's not intended to stop Russia, but to inflict pain on the citizens, so that they citizens will turn against leadership. In that moment, it really clicked for me how much normal people are pawns to be used in much larger games. And there appare…

That's how war (hard diplomacy) works as well.

World leaders don't get into an octagon and duke it out to see who controls what territory. They send normal people (soldiers) to go acquire it for them. Occasionally the soldiers capture/kill a world leader but usually they reach some kind of (conditional/unconditional) agreement before that point. But the soldiers are not world leaders themselves anyways.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#65
post #54
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was watching a mainstream news report (I'll try to find it and edit my comment) where the host and the guest were talking about the impact of economic sanctions. They said it's not intended to stop Russia, but to inflict pain on the citizens, so that they citizens will turn against leadership. In that moment, it really clicked for me how much normal people are pawns to be used in much larger games. And there appare…

With all due respect Russian people are the only ones who can stop Putin.

That's my point. The ruling class is free to exploit, manipulate, and abuse the working class, up until they're really needed for something important, like bailing out banks, or pressuring another country's government. I guarantee we all share more in common with the working class from different cultures than we do with our own ruling class.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#66

IDK. In an interconnected global economy my sanction of you hurts you, but it hurts me as well. For example, the higher price of oil is good for Russia and OPEC, but not the rest of us.So where is the pain? Certainly there are things that Russia has that the West needs. In addition, if Russians are generally used to less - and the West isn't - then again where is the pain? After two years of pandemic are most America…

High price of oil is good for Russia only if they have buyers. And yes, in the short term it will hurt us but in the longer term you are disarming the influence of a bad actor with the added benefit of incentivizing cleaner energy and perhaps more efficient means of transportation.

Seems like China is fine with taking the oil. And China knows the world won't seriously sanction it...

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#67
post #49

Russian citizens like me will be hit hardest, as usual. Large institutions and wealthy individuals will find another ways to transfer money. Costs of goods and services will rise.

I was watching a mainstream news report (I'll try to find it and edit my comment) where the host and the guest were talking about the impact of economic sanctions. They said it's not intended to stop Russia, but to inflict pain on the citizens, so that they citizens will turn against leadership. In that moment, it really clicked for me how much normal people are pawns to be used in much larger games. And there appare…

> They said it's not intended to stop Russia, but to inflict pain on the citizens, so that they citizens will turn against leadership.

Which country has it ever worked out on? Cuba? Venezuela? North Korea?

None of them have turned on their dictators. Rather, they are living life in misery. What is worse is they have been not just cut off monetarily from the rest of the World, the dictators have made sure to censor all content coming into the country. So they have no idea (or worse: false propaganda) of what is going on outside their territory.

I haven't seen sanctions actually work in even one case (will be happy to correct myself if there has been a case where sanctions actually worked). Where people fought back against the dictator and established democratic rule. Even if there were popular uprisings it has lead to establishment of even more autocratic rulers or worse, control by militias/warlords or terror groups.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#68
post #49

Russian citizens like me will be hit hardest, as usual. Large institutions and wealthy individuals will find another ways to transfer money. Costs of goods and services will rise.

I was watching a mainstream news report (I'll try to find it and edit my comment) where the host and the guest were talking about the impact of economic sanctions. They said it's not intended to stop Russia, but to inflict pain on the citizens, so that they citizens will turn against leadership. In that moment, it really clicked for me how much normal people are pawns to be used in much larger games. And there appare…

Any broad sanctions will always affect the poorest more than the richest.

Modern warfare also affects poor people more than it affects the rich — children of Russian oligarchs are off in New York and London, not fighting on the battlefields.

But the sanctions are very much meant to stop Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and to disintentivise Russia from invading other sovereign nations. Only Russians can stop this aggression.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#69

Honest question: are sanctions that affect normal citizens OK if it's through SWIFT? In my mind that would cause the populace to be more frustrated with Putin for what he's done.

Putin will simply accuse the West of trying to make lives of Russians more miserable (technically it wasn't Putin who cut Russia from SWIFT) and many people will believe him, considering that thanks to fake news on state TV the majority believe the crisis was provoked by NATO. It won't work.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#70
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was watching a mainstream news report (I'll try to find it and edit my comment) where the host and the guest were talking about the impact of economic sanctions. They said it's not intended to stop Russia, but to inflict pain on the citizens, so that they citizens will turn against leadership. In that moment, it really clicked for me how much normal people are pawns to be used in much larger games. And there appare…

That's how war (hard diplomacy) works as well. World leaders don't get into an octagon and duke it out to see who controls what territory. They send normal people (soldiers) to go acquire it for them. Occasionally the soldiers capture/kill a world leader but usually they reach some kind of (conditional/unconditional) agreement before that point. But the soldiers are not world leaders themselves anyways.

Soldiers are fair game to me, because they often choose to participate. Normal working people are just trying to survive, and destroying their lives in the hopes of influencing their country's leadership is on a different level. I get that it's war and war isn't fair, but my point is that war clearly reveals the underlying classes of people and how they're treated.
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