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Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

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Re: Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

#61

Post by axiosgunnar »

kingcharles wrote: post #59
gnicholas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: someone steals your car and you go to take it back. When you drive off with it, the thief's backpack/laptop/etc. are in the back seat. Can you now be prosecuted for theft? Obviously most people wouldn't want to hang around long enough to fully inspect the vehicle to make sure they're not taking anything that doesn't belong to them! My inkling, as a former lawyer, is that this would not be theft if you didn'…

The definition of theft is to take something with the intent to not return it. Once you found the backpack, you would have to return it to the thief for it not to be theft. Hopefully you wouldn't get prosecuted, but you are then at the whim of the prosecutor. If the thief calls it in you've created a bad situation. I was in jail and saw weird crimes like this. A guy bought some dope for $40 from a dealer, but only ha…

What is WTF about the story?

Re: Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

#62

Post by uoaei »

awb wrote: post #6
nostromo wrote: post #3

Some people don't know that you absolutely are allowed to take back your stolen property. You don't need to involve the police unless you want to. Repo folks do this all the time. Keep an extra key for your car at home and put an Airtag in your car. If it's stolen, just go get it back when it's safe to do so. Calling the police in most American cities won't get you far. They usually can't pursue a speeding car anymor…

Walking into an unfamiliar situation without training and potentially being confronted by known criminals does not sound like a great idea to me. Sorry, but my property just isn’t worth the risk. It’s replaceable, I’m not.

Criminals are scared too, that helps a lot in these situations. You just need to not act like a target.

That sounds somewhat like pre-emptive victim blaming but essentially you have to play mind games if you step to a criminal so if you do it wrong that's kind of on you.

Re: Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

#63

Post by Fatnino »

awb wrote: post #49
abyssin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the car is used to store valuable and illegal goods? And a big amount of them? Now you’re the target of both the criminals and the police.

Probably just the criminals. It should be easy enough to prove to the police that you don’t have the means or motive to acquire those illegal goods. However, if you’re mixed up in illegal activity then yeah it might look bad.

In a few years you're sitting at a red light and a cop happens to be behind you. Cop idly runs your plates because what stopping him? Car comes back as stolen since you reported it stolen and no one ever corrected that when you stole it back. Enjoy your night in jail.

Re: Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

#64

Post by jll29 »

Interesting story, I was hoping while reading that your parents got their car back in real time thanks to your geek gear in the back seat.

The story about monitoring hardware and theft reminded me of this burglar incident in the UK (I once met the person involved): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cambridgeshire/42...

Re: Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

#65

Post by phil21 »

comrh wrote: post #53
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America? Yes. I can't speak for other countries. If you do get in a shootout, well, that's likely self defense. Many will wring their hands over taking direct action, but I can speak from experience, the police and legal system don't give a damn about you or your possessions. I would absolutely be willing to risk it rather than go through the hassle of buying a new car right now.

Buying a new car is more of a hassle than risking getting into a shootout over property?

People wildly overestimate how quickly most people, criminals included, are willing to get into shootouts or even initiate violence against someone they don't size up as a victim.

If you show up to retrieve your stolen property chances are 99 out of 100 times you'll get it handed back without much of a question. They are just as scared as you randomly showing up and tracking them down as you are of them. You are not acting the part, and your actions are dangerous and abnormal - even most predators pause in such situations, and most criminals are not predators but opportunists.

Most cases. Obviously it's not the safest thing in the world, and if you're not comfortable with confrontation I wouldn't recommend it.

I'm financially well off enough now where I'd likely let pretty much all my physical possessions walk without recourse (what will happen if you just report to police). It's not worth the risk:reward benefit any longer.

However there were times in my life where I absolutely took matters into my own hands and collected stolen property that was critical to my livelihood and too expensive to replace. It was surprisingly easy every time. There were times way in my past I would have defended certain property with my life if it came to it, since losing it was nearly the same thing.

Re: Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

#66

Post by ada1981 »

recursive wrote: post #9
awb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking into an unfamiliar situation without training and potentially being confronted by known criminals does not sound like a great idea to me. Sorry, but my property just isn’t worth the risk. It’s replaceable, I’m not.

I really don't think it's so much worse than walking into a situation with unknown criminals, which most of us probably do on a consistent basis. I would definitely just go get my car back. I would probably try to do it at a time when there wouldn't be a confrontation, but it may happen.

Right, like trying to raise venture funding for instance… :p

Re: Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

#67

Post by ada1981 »

abyssin wrote: post #27
recursive wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think it's so much worse than walking into a situation with unknown criminals, which most of us probably do on a consistent basis. I would definitely just go get my car back. I would probably try to do it at a time when there wouldn't be a confrontation, but it may happen.

What if the car is used to store valuable and illegal goods? And a big amount of them? Now you’re the target of both the criminals and the police.

No post body was provided.

Re: Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

#68

Post by gnicholas »

nwiswell wrote: post #36
gnicholas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: someone steals your car and you go to take it back. When you drive off with it, the thief's backpack/laptop/etc. are in the back seat. Can you now be prosecuted for theft? Obviously most people wouldn't want to hang around long enough to fully inspect the vehicle to make sure they're not taking anything that doesn't belong to them! My inkling, as a former lawyer, is that this would not be theft if you didn'…

> My inkling, as a former lawyer, is that this would not be theft if you didn't know the item was there Not theft, but still conversion. The thief could sue you for the value of the items. When a car is repossessed the chattels (personal items) have to be returned to avoid liability. There is case law establishing that if you tell the repo agent you have stuff in the trunk and he drives off anyway, that's prima facie…

I hadn't considered conversion, but it looks like under some statutes this still requires knowledge and/or intent. [1] It also appears that the 'unclean hands' doctrine could be invoked as a defense, and a thief who seeks return of his laptop that he stashed in your car that he stole would most certainly have unclean hands!

There is one wrinkle in the intent issue, which is that you may not have had intent to take the item when you drove off, but if you later discover it and didn't give it back, you might form the requisite intent at that time. All in all, this sounds like a good law school exam question!

1: https://california-business-lawyer-corporate-lawyer.com/cali...

Re: Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

#69

Post by withinboredom »

awb wrote: post #56
inetknght wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should be easy enough to prove to the police that you don’t have the means or motive to acquire those illegal goods. I see you haven't had much experience with American police.

True, I’ve only had 6 or 7 interactions with police and they’ve all been quick and easy, but I am an educated middle age white male family man from the Bay Area so I get that other people have very different experiences from mine and yeah I could see how “just explain it to the police” wouldn’t work for everyone.

One of my friends posted the other day about how they dropped off their car to get an oil change. They went and sat down outside, scrolling through their phone. Ten minutes later the cops showed up and told him he couldn’t sleep there and he needed to go somewhere else.

Yeah, I’d say us middle-aged white dudes have it pretty easy.

Re: Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

#70

Post by withinboredom »

mannykannot wrote: post #48
nwiswell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My inkling, as a former lawyer, is that this would not be theft if you didn't know the item was there Not theft, but still conversion. The thief could sue you for the value of the items. When a car is repossessed the chattels (personal items) have to be returned to avoid liability. There is case law establishing that if you tell the repo agent you have stuff in the trunk and he drives off anyway, that's prima facie…

This is not a repossession situation, so it is not obvious that the law is the same as it is with repossession.

Isn’t it literally repossessed when you steal back your car.
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