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This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

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Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#61

Post by Grustaf »

999900000999 wrote: post #22
drcongo wrote: post #6

I'm sure I'm in a minority here, but I think this is good . As a consumer, I want to be warned if there's something that's going to deviate from my system's norms, especially if it could take money from me.

I actually agree with you. On Android, you can side load, but you're warned if you destroy your life via some strange binary you found on the internet, that's on you. On iOS, it's more than a reasonable to say you're using an third-party payment service which is not subject to Apple security. If your tech savvy, you know that this is just fear-mongering on Apple's part. And if you're not tech savvy, then stick to usi…

It's not just fear mongering though. The risk that Apple will steal your credit card details is exactly zero. With a third-party it's definitely not zero, and there are plenty of people who are suspicious enough to barely trust Apple with their credit card.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#63

Post by unfocussed_mike »

Grustaf wrote: post #57
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #39

I am puzzled that he really appears to find it funny. I am a long-time Mac user and I find myself fervently hoping that Apple has made the completely unnecessary self-own that will finally help people forget the whole keyboard fiasco. This is the most staggering example of deliberate, bad-faith arrogance that they could have come up with. If Apple is now the kind of business that joyfully thumbs its nose at regulator…

Because it can't just be that they actually want to be very clear to the user that Apple is not responsible for the experience?

When I buy an iPhone, I buy an iPhone using a third party payment provider. Apple do not smirk and infer that those payments are made through a provider they don't control. They take my money.

They aren't just being "very clear", they are thumbing their nose at the regulator, and joyfully pissing in customer and developer chips as they do so.

They are trolling the process. That is very clear.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#64

Post by emteycz »

shultays wrote: post #21
drcongo wrote: post #6

I'm sure I'm in a minority here, but I think this is good . As a consumer, I want to be warned if there's something that's going to deviate from my system's norms, especially if it could take money from me.

I think there are more than one "norms" when it comes to payment. Here in Sweden you can expect to use klarna or swish if you pay something online, i wouldnt be worried if they forward me those payment services.

The point isn't the payment itself, it's about the management of your purchase. Apple App Store makes you able to easily cancel subscribtions etc - will I be able to cancel a subscribtion paid over klarna or swish as easily as I can cancel these bough through App Store?

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#65

Post by snowwrestler »

sschueller wrote: post #4

It's really time to do what needs to be done. I want the EU to force Apple and Google to allow 3rd party app stores with the exact same rights as theirs (auto updated etc.). Just like back in the day when Microsoft was forced to let users allow other browser when it wasn't even being blocked. Just theirs was pre-installed! The security excuse doesn't cut it, sorry. 3rd party app stores can be just as secure if not ev…

> Just like back in the day when Microsoft was forced to let users allow other browser when it wasn't even being blocked. Just theirs was pre-installed!

Microsoft’s antitrust case is frequently misunderstood. MS was a supplier to the companies that made and sold computers. They got in trouble for messing with other suppliers.

Apple manufacturers and sells the computer. It’s not analogous.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#66

Post by Grustaf »

xlii wrote: post #9

I think that the best way for Apple to conform to all those regulations would be dual-tiering the iPhone (which I know they avoided for years) in software or even by two box designs. One would be "casual" iPhone (called just iPhone or iPhone Family), that'd have all the safety warnings, walled garden exits notification etc. etc., and then there would be "expert" edition or whatever, where there would be minimal notif…

One reason they're not doing that is that more than 99% of people would buy the family edition.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#67

Post by dessant »

Diggsey wrote: post #53
dessant wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A store cannot dictate how much you charge for a product at a different retailer, and they have no right to interfere with your business activity, and the agreements you have with a different distributor.

Apple can and does do this.

Products on the App Store can be sold at a different price, companies often do this to recoup some of that 30% App Store commission.

Edit: this is a fact, though feel free to downvote. Apple tries to hide this from the user by not letting publishers mention that the app or service is cheaper when purchased outside of the App Store or Mac App Store.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#68

Post by alistairSH »

Meh, mixed feelings about this.

I like Apple's payment system. It works, it's consistent, I can cancel things from a single menu. There are real benefits to me, the consumer, to using Apple's system.

On the flip side, other payment systems can be a hodgepodge of unsecured, user hostile (cancellations), and inconsistent. There can be real negatives to using other systems. More so some systems that don't have a consistent UX (ie, don't bump me into PayPal's UX or similar and have a branded payment page instead).

Basically, I'm not a fan of Apple being this heavy-handed. There has to be a happy middle ground. But, I also hate inconsistent payment workflows and loathe cancelling subscriptions elsewhere. Not sure what the right answer is, but as a consumer, I'm finding it hard to care about this.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#69

Post by Grustaf »

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #63
Grustaf wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it can't just be that they actually want to be very clear to the user that Apple is not responsible for the experience?

When I buy an iPhone, I buy an iPhone using a third party payment provider. Apple do not smirk and infer that those payments are made through a provider they don't control. They take my money. They aren't just being "very clear", they are thumbing their nose at the regulator, and joyfully pissing in customer and developer chips as they do so. They are trolling the process. That is very clear.

Perhaps the 27% is a troll, but the warning screen is 100% in line with how they always do things. Just like when you run an executable on your mac that you downloaded from the internet, they warn you and ask you if you really want to open it. That's not about money, it's about making it clear to users what they are about to do, so they don't have a bad experience and are put off Apple products.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#70

Post by Isinlor »

sschueller wrote: post #4

It's really time to do what needs to be done. I want the EU to force Apple and Google to allow 3rd party app stores with the exact same rights as theirs (auto updated etc.). Just like back in the day when Microsoft was forced to let users allow other browser when it wasn't even being blocked. Just theirs was pre-installed! The security excuse doesn't cut it, sorry. 3rd party app stores can be just as secure if not ev…

EU is specifically drafting legislation for gatekeepers in Digital Markets Law.

TL;DR Apple and Google will have to allow to install third-party app stores trough their stores.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=COM%3A20...

Gatekeepers like Apple will have specific obligation according to Article 5:

(b) allow business users to offer the same products or services to end users through third party online intermediation services at prices or conditions that are different from those offered through the online intermediation services of the gatekeeper;

(c) allow business users to promote offers to end users acquired via the core platform service, and to conclude contracts with these end users regardless of whether for that purpose they use the core platform services of the gatekeeper or not, and allow end users to access and use, through the core platform services of the gatekeeper, content, subscriptions, features or other items by using the software application of a business user, where these items have been acquired by the end users from the relevant business user without using the core platform services of the gatekeeper;

And Article 6:

(c) allow the installation and effective use of third party software applications or software application stores using, or interoperating with, operating systems of that gatekeeper and allow these software applications or software application stores to be accessed by means other than the core platform services of that gatekeeper. The gatekeeper shall not be prevented from taking proportionate measures to ensure that third party software applications or software application stores do not endanger the integrity of the hardware or operating system provided by the gatekeeper;

(k) apply fair and non-discriminatory general conditions of access for business users to its software application store designated pursuant to Article 3 of this Regulation.

Following articles, like:

- article 7: Compliance with obligations for gatekeepers

- article 10: Updating obligations for gatekeepers and

- article 11: Anti-circumvention

give the EU Commission quite a lot of executive power to ensure effective implementation.

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