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Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

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Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#61

Post by riskable »

simion314 wrote: post #9
tehbeard wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the main difference is JVM didn't have a workable UI vs the web?

You could do a working GUI with the JVM. But most people demanded Windows desktop apps, and for Windows only you could use .Net and C# for a better experience. Linux community was in big part against Java or Mono because of license and FUD so Python was the winner for the higher level language there.

Firstly let me state that yes, you could make a GUI with Java but it would suck because the GUI toolkits available at the time were just downright awful (and they still are!). Want an app that's super bloated and looks awful (no native controls)? Use Java!

Also, the Linux community wasn't against Java per se (not until Oracle bought Sun anyway) it's just that writing Java was a huge/complicated undertaking compared to say, Python and managing JREs was a huge pain in the ass. The old joke was, "By the time you have Eclipse open I will have completed the program in Python."

Lastly, mono was enormous (and still is)! Talk about bloated! When mono was being most actively pushed on the Linux community back in the day there was just no benefit: For smaller things you had shell scripts and Python. For larger programs you had C/C++, Java, and... Python :D. Why would you go through the hassle (and it was a huge hassle) of using mono when those other languages provided better performance with much lower friction/barrier to entry? It didn't have much of a "selling point" as it were.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#63

Post by deergomoo »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #58
jtbayly wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add: - Getting notifications from websites I want notifications from This should not be impossible just because there are 5 trillion websites I don't want notifications from.

The problem is, that you can always "force" the user to allow you notifications or cannot proceed. And $GREEDY_MEGACORP would abuse their power and send you a "verification code" through the push notification, else you cannot process the signup etc. The good thing about the Apple Appstore, that promotional/marketing push notifications are forbidden and will get your App banned from the Appstore. Just allowing generic…

> that promotional/marketing push notifications are forbidden

Not anymore they’re not. It wasn’t enforced when it was on the books; last year the rule was removed. Even Apple advertise their own services via push now.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#64

Post by judge2020 »

asadlionpk wrote: post #62

As a user, I hope Apple doesn't just enable notifications as it is. I tried Android recently for 6 months and permission popups on each site were really annoying!

Given Apple, it'll probably be limited to PWAs on the home screen, aka. only if the user goes to the share sheet and hits "add to home screen", where then it'll pop up the permission for sending notifications.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#65

Post by asadlionpk »

judge2020 wrote: post #64
asadlionpk wrote: post #62

As a user, I hope Apple doesn't just enable notifications as it is. I tried Android recently for 6 months and permission popups on each site were really annoying!

Given Apple, it'll probably be limited to PWAs on the home screen, aka. only if the user goes to the share sheet and hits "add to home screen", where then it'll pop up the permission for sending notifications.

That would be awesome! But given Apple, they wouldn't want people to circumvent their App Store. Push is probably the biggest reason people still make apps.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#66

Post by tl »

mrtksn wrote: post #45
teucris wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the noise comes from Web technologists don't want to learn anything beyond JavaScript. I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but not this. PWAs are the only path for allowing open publishing of apps that is not gated by a large tech firm. While I completely understand the value proposition of app stores, there are tons of app scenarios held back by them. Two instances are small web[0] and situated software[…

I wouldn't call PWAs universal platform when they are very dependent on Google being nice with Chrome. Also, browsers already have integrated blocking mechanism that is supposed to block out phishing sites etc. but that's only the case because so far the browser infrastructure operators(Mozilla, Google, Apple) are acting nice. The Push notification infrastructure is also possible only because the browser infrastructu…

> very dependent on Google being nice with Chrome

Replace Apple/Safari+Google/Chrome with Google/Gmail+Microsoft/Outlook and you currently describe e-mail. That situation is still preferable to the tons of messaging walled gardens. And the web is getting new feature albeit slowly and unevenly in a way that mail is not.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#67

Post by olliej »

paulgb wrote: post #3

I'm excited to see support for Web Push. I realize that most people associate it with spammy sites asking for permission to send you notifications you don't want, but I think it hasn't really been given a chance because it lacks iOS support. Some things that it enables: - Low-friction asynchronous turn-based games (think “Words with Friends” but you don't have to install an app) - Single-purpose alerts (like CamelCam…

I’d love to have a chrome person comment on the actual stats of web push usage because no non-developer I’ve interacted with has ever intentionally accepted push spam.

I think all developers think that their site is somehow unique in the value of their notifications, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#68

Post by olliej »

tehbeard wrote: post #7
mwexler wrote: post #5

Funny enough, apps were supposed to be just for Apple. The original conception is that 3rd party tools, games, etc. for the iPhone would just be webapps. ( https://9to5mac.com/2011/10/21/jobs-original-vision-for-the-... , etc.) A few adjustments to the model and here we are with lots of native code and big money... but still, folks requesting updates to the the browser to support more app-ish functionality. I'm glad;…

I guess the main difference is JVM didn't have a workable UI vs the web?

why would the JVM be involved?

Literally the expectation was you'd be a web app - html + js.

Everyone said that wasn't acceptable so they added native apps, and now everyone says native apps are terrible and everything should be web apps. It seems like apple can't win.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#69

Post by miohtama »

sefrost wrote: post #60
mmis1000 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edge exactly did that. It collects feedback from users. If a site got rejected by literally every user. It will be put into the `don't even bother prompt the users` list. And start from this point. No edge user will be prompt actively by that site (There will still be a icon on the url bar. If the user really really want to enable it, he can click it himself).

Do we know which sites are in that "no prompt" list?

Sounds like a ripe for abuse on a competitor’s site. How does Edge identity the reporting users?

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#70

Post by olliej »

judge2020 wrote: post #64
asadlionpk wrote: post #62

As a user, I hope Apple doesn't just enable notifications as it is. I tried Android recently for 6 months and permission popups on each site were really annoying!

Given Apple, it'll probably be limited to PWAs on the home screen, aka. only if the user goes to the share sheet and hits "add to home screen", where then it'll pop up the permission for sending notifications.

which actually makes sense, as there is a fundamental difference between "installed as an app" vs some random website spamming users.
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