Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify • Hacker News Board

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#61

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 30, 2022, 1:26 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #39

gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

[deleted]

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#62

Post by HL33tibCe7 » Sun, Jan 30, 2022, 1:26 AM UTC

tomcat27 wrote: post #18

Joe Rogan is a very good listener and his show is popular for a good reason and that's not political. Silencing this way is just cancel culture.

The trouble with Joe Rogan is that he tends to invite people on who agree with his existing worldview (in this case, vaccine skepticism), and he tends not to challenge them whatsoever, so they are allowed to spout whatever nonsense with zero pushback. I don’t think this is out of malice by the way, I think he just doesn’t realise they’re spreading misinformation.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#63

Post by School-Cotton » Sun, Jan 30, 2022, 1:26 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #39

gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

Of course anyone who believes in freedom of speech would agree that Young and Mitchell have the right to pull their music. That doesn’t change the fact that one can disagree with that decision.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#64

Post by shadowgovt » Sun, Jan 30, 2022, 1:27 AM UTC

eej71 wrote: post #35

spaceisballer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. People can’t take a stance? I think it’s well within their right to pull their music for what they believe in.

Of course he can take a stance. And by the same token the rest of us are free to criticize it.

As they are free to criticize Spotify by putting their money where opinions are and taking their content elsewhere.

Free speech all the way around.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#65

Post by throwawayboise » Sun, Jan 30, 2022, 1:27 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #39

gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

Yes there is. Young and Mitchell should argue their position on its merits, not throw a hissy fit and take their toys and go home.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#66

Post by tomcat27 » Sun, Jan 30, 2022, 1:27 AM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #28

tomcat27 wrote: post #18

Joe Rogan is a very good listener and his show is popular for a good reason and that's not political. Silencing this way is just cancel culture.

Who, precisely, is "canceling" (much less "silencing") who in this scenario? As I recall, the Supreme Court has consistently recognized the freedom of association as a core component of free speech. And that seems to be what's happening.

I do not know the nuances of free speech doctrines. I'll take your word. Assume all tech companies de-platform Joe Rogan fearing retribution from other customers

He buys a Ubuntu box to host the videos. And now he needs a static IP and a domain name. Are DNS providers considered in association to Joe Rogan's speech if they sell him a domain name?

Seems to be true going by the assumption that DNS providers are tech companies. If so, should the DNS providers decide not to sell Joe Rogan a domain name fearing retribution from other customers, and as a consequence Joe Rogan is practically NOT visible on the internet at all to any reasonable person, isn't that not in the spirit of free speech?

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#67

Post by magicalist » Sun, Jan 30, 2022, 1:28 AM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

> which is the “anti-science” position

Young didn't justify his position with some appeal to science in the abstract, so not sure what this point is but whataboutism.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#68

Post by throwawaysea » Sun, Jan 30, 2022, 1:28 AM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #41

gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

My understanding of the GMO debate is that there are two kinds of GMO development: there's GMO for the purposes of making crops themselves hardier, more nutritious, etc., and then there's GMO for the purposes of making crops more resistant to novel pesticides, herbicides, etc. The agricultural industry likes to conflate the two, since the latter is much harder to defend. I have no idea what Neil Young actually believ…

There are also other pro science reasons to be against GMO crops. A couple example. GMO based industrial farms grow monocultures that ultimately reduce the variety of foods people traditionally grew and ate, leading to less varied diets and loss of culture. GMO crops also have yields that are unsustainably high, leading to disruption of water cycles (see Ogalalla aquifer depletion).

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#69

Post by streblo » Sun, Jan 30, 2022, 1:28 AM UTC

porcoda wrote: post #4

This is why I still buy music I like - either physical media, or DRM-free files I can archive away. It's more expensive and labor intensive to manage, but at least I don't have to worry about my music ever vanishing for one reason or another. Things like Spotify are useful for discovering new stuff, but I sort of like knowing that stuff I like will always be available for me to enjoy regardless of what's going on amo…

The convenience of an unlimited catalog of DRM'ed digital music far outweighs the rare inconvenience of music vanishing.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#70

Post by guerrilla » Sun, Jan 30, 2022, 1:28 AM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #50

torstenvl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you didn't know, but Neil Young tried to get Spotify to deplatform Joe Rogan (i.e., to cancel his Spotify distribution deal), and used his repertoire as an ultimatum. EDIT: I'm being downvoted to oblivion for stating an objective fact. This is unbecoming of HN. I'm out.

The linguistic choice of "deplatform[ing]" is such a funny one: in any other era, we'd call withholding one's business a "boycott." But the history of the word "boycott" in the US has a distinctly anti-racial hue, and people who yammer about deplatforming seem to take extreme pains to avoid any comparison between today's boycotts and those good old lunch counters.

I've never heard this before. I and people I know boycott things all the time. There's also the popular "Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement"...