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The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

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Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#61

Post by renewiltord »

Damn, literary criticism is hard. You can’t really tell people anything without the shared context. I totally get the characterization they’re getting at and the distinction between (say) Diamond Age and The Martian and I can’t think of any words more than what they’ve come up with, but clearly that infuriates some Andy Weir fans (I’m a fan but not in the infuriated-by-this category).

Ah well, I guess you can only broadcast your message as best as you can, and hope it lands among the receivers it does.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#62

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

EricE wrote: post #52
long_time_gone wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any kind of societal, economic, human and environmental ill is caused by capitalism, so anything that tries to solve actual problems instead of eliminating or weakening capitalism isn’t doing enough My entire life (40 years) has been feeding me the exact opposite propaganda. In the world I've lived in, capitalism is the answer to all of our ills. Things are only broken (like healthcare or education in the US) becau…

I'm at 50 years and I remember seeing live television pictures of East Berlin and wondering if what I was watching was black and white or color (black and white TV's were still pretty common) and it was always a shock when there was an unexpected splash of color in an otherwise gray and dystopian hellscape on the TV. Turns out the cameras and everything were color, there just wasn't much color from the environment fo…

If you want to talk about extreme capitalism (US healthcare) vs. GDR Stazi communism, only, then sure the conclusion that you are lead to is obvious.

And yet there better models than both, once you get past the emotional appeal to this false dichotomy. Any well-off European country with universal healthcare (usually socialised), well-regulated free markets in most other sectors, and relatively low income inequality will do.

That's leaving aside the models that are currently "science fiction".

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#63

Post by toolcombinator »

I just can’t take it seriously when the author presents such falsehoods as Western “vaccine greed”.

(Both Moderna and Pfizer’s have made vaccines available at cost and promised not to go after parent infringement for the duration of the pandemic. It of course also ignores vaccines from other countries such as the Russian Sputnik vaccine.)

As for western countries buying five dosages for every citizen?

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF GOVERNMENT IN GENERAL: To look after your citizens.

Likewise the emotional but intellectually vapid mentioning of food surplus in the US.

What exactly is the alternative? Ship food we’re about to throw out to the third world? How is it supposed to survive a 3 week trip on a container ship? What would the effect be on agriculture in the receiving countries? (Spoiler: Not good!)

Or are Americans perhaps supposed to hand out food for free in other countries? (Oh wait! That’s already being done! Even to hostile countries like North Korea)

Likewise the emotional argument about empty apartments in NYC, that completely ignores that homelessness is a complex problem, that often involves addiction, mental illness, antisocial behavior and is only rarely solved by just handing out free apartments.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#64

Post by toolcombinator »

prox wrote: post #10
ilamont wrote: post #2

Examples include Isaac Asimov’s robots, Robert Heinlein’s rocket ships, and William Gibson’s cyberspace.” He called these examples hieroglyphs: clear, inspiring symbols of what a better future might hold. William Gibson writing about a better future? That's not what I saw in his books, but great science fiction doesn't have to portray a better future. In my opinion, great science fiction doesn't have to follow dogma,…

Stargate SG-1 is holding up remarkably well as a long running series that documents the political climate of the day (collapse soviet union, rise of china as a power) as well technological advancements (the early computers in the series vs the final years with laptops and all) Notwithstanding the great chemistry of the actors and commentary on many aspects of society and interpersonal relationships.

I always liked SGA better, but you’re definitely right about SG 1.

Which of course begs another question: SG1 was made in a time that we can call the Golden Age of TV Sci fi, along with the Trek shows, Farscape and many more.

(Though granted: SG1 is probably more of an action adventure show at heart, if you want to get anal about classifications.)

Despite productions that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, why don’t we see show of the same quality today?

Yeah, there’s The Expanse and The Orville, but those two are the only exceptions in a media landscape almost barren of good sci-fi like SG-1.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#65

Post by toolcombinator »

cstross wrote: post #20

SF author here: I was invited to participate in Project Hieroglyph and declined to do so, because the explicit remit was essentially to write panglossian techno-optimism rather than downbeat realist-mode depictions of our more likely futures. Attacking a propaganda exercise for being propaganda seems, well, a trifle spurious ...! (Also: essay falls into the classic pitfall of assuming that a genre of fiction has to b…

If you look back at sci-fi from the 60ies, despite it appearing utopian today, it often dealt with the anxieties and issues of the day.

Trek is a good example. It’s often hailed as “utopian” and “visionary” today, totally ignoring the Cold War themes, fear of technology (Just look at how many times Kirk faced an intelligent computer antagonist!), overpopulation and of course the counter culture.

In the space hippie episode (Which Way to Eden?) Spock even talks about the discomfort many people feel with technology and the universal longing for a pre-technological eden.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#66

Post by toolcombinator »

mwattsun wrote: post #7

The future is notoriously hard to predict and attempting to deliberately shape it with SF seems like a quixotic idea. As the sci-fi writer Algis Budrys put it in the 1960s, the “recurrent strain in ‘Golden Age’ science fiction [was] the implication that sheer technological accomplishment would solve all the problems, hooray, and that all the problems were what they seemed to be on the surface.” Techno-optimism is one…

Techno optimism wasn’t just a sci-fi thing, it was the spirit of the times to a large extent in the Western World and Eastern Block alike.

All the “Better living through chemistry” and dreams of tiny nuclear power reactors in every car and house, providing virtually free energy to all.

And to a certain extent THEY WERE RIGHT!

The green revolution in the 60ies revolutionized agriculture, and made a world with more than a few billion people possible.

Folks growing up in the 60ies were the first generation in Europe, the USSR and US (Heck, in many countries around the world) who grew up never having seen famine or real hunger.

Things that were once unobtainable luxuries, like cars or airplane travel, became something within reach of regular people.

The techno optimism might appear quaint today, but likewise we have forgotten just how much life has been transformed for the better.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#67

Post by toolcombinator »

hideo wrote: post #29
AlwaysRock wrote: post #24

Did anyone else read this article and still not really get the point the author is trying to make? Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed or finished a sci fi novel last night that ended with a little too much like Bruce Willis Saves The Day. Stephenson, who he calls out, actually worked at Blue Origin in the early days trying to come up with and design alternative fuel/rocket ideas. Did they work?…

Yeah I re-read it 3-something times and I have no idea what's going on here. Here's what I took away - Most Sci Fi is too dystopian - Project Heiroglyph forced authors to be techno optimist and it didn't go anywhere - Authors must deal with human malfeasance (isn't that just the dystopian fiction that he is against) - ??? - Profit?

Don’t forget: “Entrepreneurs are evil!”

Because you know, entrepreneurs aren’t an integral part of who helps shape the future. They’re evil capitalists. And in the future they’ll be evil space capitalists.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#68

Post by toolcombinator »

EricE wrote: post #52
long_time_gone wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any kind of societal, economic, human and environmental ill is caused by capitalism, so anything that tries to solve actual problems instead of eliminating or weakening capitalism isn’t doing enough My entire life (40 years) has been feeding me the exact opposite propaganda. In the world I've lived in, capitalism is the answer to all of our ills. Things are only broken (like healthcare or education in the US) becau…

I'm at 50 years and I remember seeing live television pictures of East Berlin and wondering if what I was watching was black and white or color (black and white TV's were still pretty common) and it was always a shock when there was an unexpected splash of color in an otherwise gray and dystopian hellscape on the TV. Turns out the cameras and everything were color, there just wasn't much color from the environment fo…

Funny how the people always banging on about the evils of capitalism have never actually lived under a communist system.

And also seem to believe there’s some sort of socialist Utopia in Europe/Scandinavia, despite the fact that social democracy has been dead there for decades.

Then again, in general anti capitalists are a fairly ignorant bunch, who’ve never let reality get in the way of their dogmatic politics.

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#69

Post by cstross »

toolcombinator wrote: post #65
cstross wrote: post #20

SF author here: I was invited to participate in Project Hieroglyph and declined to do so, because the explicit remit was essentially to write panglossian techno-optimism rather than downbeat realist-mode depictions of our more likely futures. Attacking a propaganda exercise for being propaganda seems, well, a trifle spurious ...! (Also: essay falls into the classic pitfall of assuming that a genre of fiction has to b…

If you look back at sci-fi from the 60ies, despite it appearing utopian today, it often dealt with the anxieties and issues of the day. Trek is a good example. It’s often hailed as “utopian” and “visionary” today, totally ignoring the Cold War themes, fear of technology (Just look at how many times Kirk faced an intelligent computer antagonist!), overpopulation and of course the counter culture. In the space hippie e…

There's also survivorship bias at work here -- the SF we remember from the 1960s tends to be stuff that was initially popular and has stood the test of time. (There was a lot of terrible SF in the 1960s, and it was still cluttering up the second hand bookshops when I was strip-mining them in the 1970s.)

Re: The Writing on the Wall: Sci-Fi’s Empty Techno-Optimism

#70

Post by toolcombinator »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #62
EricE wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm at 50 years and I remember seeing live television pictures of East Berlin and wondering if what I was watching was black and white or color (black and white TV's were still pretty common) and it was always a shock when there was an unexpected splash of color in an otherwise gray and dystopian hellscape on the TV. Turns out the cameras and everything were color, there just wasn't much color from the environment fo…

If you want to talk about extreme capitalism (US healthcare) vs. GDR Stazi communism, only, then sure the conclusion that you are lead to is obvious. And yet there better models than both, once you get past the emotional appeal to this false dichotomy. Any well-off European country with universal healthcare (usually socialised), well-regulated free markets in most other sectors, and relatively low income inequality w…

Nope.

First of all, healthcare in many European countries is often insurance based.

Yes, in some cases it’s socialized. And in those places the healthcare system is rapidly falling apart/getting worse, and everyone who can afford it goes private.

Just look at the boom in private doctors/insurance in countries like the UK and Denmark.

And of course you also ignore the price paid in the form of taxes, VAT, etc. (Nope, not corporate taxes, which in Europe tend to be lower than in the US.)

If you wanted to nationalize healthcare in the US, you’re basically talking about adding trillions to an already bloated Federal budget.

For some reason, I’ve yet to see a solution to that problem that wasn’t some kind of immature, unproductive slogan throwing like “tax the rich!”

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