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Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

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Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#61

Post by blunte »

Ironically, it may end up being one of these "tiny" scenarios which finally does Google in.

When trying to illustrate a problem or bug, one of the typically time consuming challenges is reducing the scenario to the minimal case which illustrates the problem. So thank you, @emilyldolson!

Aside from an empty file, you cannot reduce this any further. It brings to light in simple terms that non-techies can understand how absurd the "ML to solve everything" promise is -- and even moreso how wilfully negligent companies are by providing NO human intervention or support when the machines break down.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#64

Post by sb057 »

ehnto wrote: post #22
version_five wrote: post #2

"A review cannot be requested for this restriction" ML enforcing rules is bad enough, but not allowing false positives to be corrected is ridiculous. This is why I would never consider g-suite for any business application. Otoh, I think there is a legitimate business to be made helping small businesses and individuals secure themselves against arbitrary behavior from big tech. This kind of thing can have serious cons…

Reminds me of that 70s IBM presentation quote that surfaced recently, "A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision". It's one thing to have a computer flag issues, another to make it responsible for taking action and in this case, making a decision final. Google continues to set poor examples with irresponsible implementations of machine learning. With no accou…

I think that quote should be flipped.

"A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must always make management decisions."

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#65

Post by munificent »

lhorie wrote: post #58

I have a pet theory that all of these recent Google bloopers could be explained easily if you start from the assumption that Google internal incentives promote efforts to cut costs such as storage. "Garbage" docs, inactive email accounts, less search results etc can all be reasonably explained by a desire to not spend money on storage for "low value" data (i.e. data that is unlikely to be accessed in a way that trans…

I don't think there's anything specific to Google. I think the chain of events was basically:

1. Storage is expensive, so software designers and users build tools and habits that are parsimonious with it. Programs would store files in carefully designed binary formats to save space because space was expensive. Users would periodically go through directories on our computers and manually delete old stuff. Apps required users to explicitly choose what to save.

2. Storage gets much cheaper.

3. Seeing that, companies like Google and others offer "unlimited storage" by projecting the observed user behavior from (1) onto the storage costs of (2).

4. But now users and app developers change their behavior since the incentive environment is now (3). Camera apps automatically save every photo you take. Phones record higher and higher resolution video. Users stop deleting anything and rely on search to wade through their sea of bits.

5. Companies how have to adapt to the reality of (4).

I don't think there was anything particularly nefarious or shitty on the part of any participant. It's just the nature of big complex iterated systems with emergent properties.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#66

Post by forgotmypw17 »

miohtama wrote: post #33
capableweb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely the people actually implementing this system did raise potential issues to their supervisors. It's not the implementer that needs more education, it is the people who drive the implementer that needs better education in how to design systems. But since it probably doesn't affect the bottom-line, it's unlikely to actually happen.

There probably was risk discussion involved in some point of feature implementation. Lawyers got involved and the discussion likely went like this 1) DMCA Safe Harbor gives us, Google, unlimited protection 2) What are the users going to do any case? Sue us? Migrate to Microsoft Office 365? The minuscule amount of issues caused on 0.1% users is not going to hit our bottom line and the users cannot damage us. 3) We off…

4) We have 1 billion users and 1 million reports of copyright infringement per day, which we have to address according to the DMCA somehow.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#67

Post by nefitty »

bobm_kite9 wrote: post #25
ehnto wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of that 70s IBM presentation quote that surfaced recently, "A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision". It's one thing to have a computer flag issues, another to make it responsible for taking action and in this case, making a decision final. Google continues to set poor examples with irresponsible implementations of machine learning. With no accou…

Yes! This is one thing humans are still much better at than AI: taking blame.

AI-aided management decisions can't come soon enough. Decision Model and Notation made big headway on this, but I don't see it discussed. They're fancy decision trees but can handle complex factors and are designed to be intuitive to reason about.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#68

Post by pokot0 »

version_five wrote: post #2

"A review cannot be requested for this restriction" ML enforcing rules is bad enough, but not allowing false positives to be corrected is ridiculous. This is why I would never consider g-suite for any business application. Otoh, I think there is a legitimate business to be made helping small businesses and individuals secure themselves against arbitrary behavior from big tech. This kind of thing can have serious cons…

I agree with you and in general the move from owning software to accessing a service has been detrimental for the end user (more costs, more problems, less control).

But the restriction here is most likely just the inability to share (I would guess publicly). I don't believe it prevents you from accessing your file.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#69

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

miohtama wrote: post #33
capableweb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely the people actually implementing this system did raise potential issues to their supervisors. It's not the implementer that needs more education, it is the people who drive the implementer that needs better education in how to design systems. But since it probably doesn't affect the bottom-line, it's unlikely to actually happen.

There probably was risk discussion involved in some point of feature implementation. Lawyers got involved and the discussion likely went like this 1) DMCA Safe Harbor gives us, Google, unlimited protection 2) What are the users going to do any case? Sue us? Migrate to Microsoft Office 365? The minuscule amount of issues caused on 0.1% users is not going to hit our bottom line and the users cannot damage us. 3) We off…

If the full DMCA process was implemented, takedowns could be immediately reverted and then the trolls would have to use the court system as intended. Abusive behavior from bad actors could then be addressed.
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