Web3 and crypto skepticism is growing and people are finally starting to listen • Hacker News Board

Re: Web3 and crypto skepticism is growing and people are finally starting to listen

#61

Post by hunterb123 » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #35

hunterb123 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said "I'd argue" like I would, just as GP said "I'd argue". That means we aren't yet. I just wanted to voice that I disagreed so others could pick it up. Central point of failures, ownership, privacy, etc etc. Obvious stuff I don't want to ramble about. Only HN would try to downplay decentralization, something we know the benefits of, only to bash crypto/web3.

Actually, the benefits of decentralization are worth weighing against the costs of decentralization. There's a reason that the process of going from web1 to web2 involved quite a bit of centralization. If web3 cannot meet its goals in a way that either maintains those benefits or creates a new benefit that substantively offsets the cost of losing them, people won't care. And if people don't care, this web3 will be as…

Web2 will still exist if it's so great. I guess we'll see who is right in the end.

I for one just like the progression and the technology, and the empowerment it gives users vs operators. I guess that's lost here.

Re: Web3 and crypto skepticism is growing and people are finally starting to listen

#62

Post by acdha » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

phyalow wrote: post #30

acdha wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Web3” is a marketing campaign created to drum up demand for cryptocurrencies. That’s why the sales people blow off technical concerns claiming that the answer is to buy the tokens they conveniently already own so you can then maybe help build a system which actually works later.

No "Web3" really isnt just a marketing campign. Look up web3.js, which had its first release in 2015, it offers a set of tools for creating and interacting with ephemeral/emergent internet architecture which is what Web3 is really about. I dont disagree there are a number of less than scrupulous people floating around selling worthless tokens, BUT to solely focus on them is to ignore a real core of interesting comput…

Are you not talking about https://github.com/ethereumproject/web3.js? That’s built on Ethereum to encourage use of their microtransaction-based service.

> BUT to solely focus on them is to ignore a real core of interesting computer science advances.

Examples? Specifically, which advances are you referring to which solve a problem other than “now you can do something you could do before but by paying me instead”?

Re: Web3 and crypto skepticism is growing and people are finally starting to listen

#63

Post by hemloc_io » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

schleck8 wrote: post #10

Serious question: What problem does web3 or decentralization fix? - Oligopoly of the hyperscalers -> rent server from small provider like ovh/hetzner/netcup (there is plenty). The reason AWS, Azure and GCP are so popular is because people don't care. - Privavy intrusions -> Adblocker/DNS Blocker/Turn off JS/Use browser settings This won't be fixed by web3, ad monetization and tracking won't magically stop. They exist…

I think the steelman arg I've found for crypto as a general social media replacement is based on three pillars.

1. Ownership by default. NFTs are kinda a silly example, but since your wallet ("You") own your the token that represent your assets being able to transfer them around with you whenever you go somewhere new is cool.

2. Authentication with your wallet makes things much better. SSO for the whole web.

3. Alignment of incentives for users + service providers. (DAOs, traditional corps, etc.).

So with a concrete example.

In Web2 social network, the social graph is closed off along with all your account info. If you want to move to a different social media website, you have to reenter all your info and re-friend everyone etc. The corporation chose to ban people, and the only way you can in theory get a vote is through owning a share.

In (the ideal) Web3 social network, the social graph is open b/c all your friends are attached to your wallet. If you want to move websites you can take them with you, or even have you be on multiple front ends. Even better you might get tokens to vote for certain proposals in the DAO, for example such as banning people off the site etc.

Decentralization is valuable b/c it allows the above to happen, not because it's valuable in it of itself. Without a decentralized network there wouldn't be enough trust in the network for anyone to use it (long term).

After all blockchains are basically one giant shared database, if someone thought you can modify it, it loses all value (Similar to fiat money in a way ;) )

Re: Web3 and crypto skepticism is growing and people are finally starting to listen

#64

Post by netcan » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

nefitty wrote: post #44

fullshark wrote: post #4

The evidence to support the claim is pretty weak, basically there's some more anti-crypto blogposts and documentaries out. I could easily make an article with the reverse claim and point out the pro-crypto blogposts and documentaries.

Sentiment in online chatter correlates with price movement. It becomes a feedback loop. Maybe the criticism is finally overwhelming people's risk functions.

Or the reverse... price drops make people more open to "crypto is bullshit" arguments.

Re: Web3 and crypto skepticism is growing and people are finally starting to listen

#65

Post by lukifer » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

asow92 wrote: post #5

raxxorrax wrote: post #2

I would separate the crypto craze from Web3 to be honest. On its face it doesn't really have to do with crypto currency at all. A centralization is otherwise no really desirable for many users.

Isn't the general thesis of Web3 partially based on the principles of decentralized blockchain technologies, a lot like crypto? If so they are certainly related to each other.

There is no shortage of snake-oil and perverse incentives in the space; but the most charitable reading is that Web3 is a diverse family of technologies attempting to fill in two gaps from Web1: (a) self-sovereign identity, and (b) distributed value exchange. Their absence fueled the rise of the quasi-feudal [0] Web 2.0: outsourcing these functions to centralized firms (Google ID, PayPal).

The proposed identity models sometimes involve blockchains and smart contracts, but can also use simple private keys, or trustful P2P models like holochains. The solutions for value exchange are where crypto-tokens enter the picture (setting aside the perverse incentives of Supply attempting to create its own Demand); but one could certainly envision the same technology working with state-backed digital currencies, while still disintermediating finance middlemen (credit card fees, eBay fees, brokerage fees, etc).

[0] https://www.schneier.com/essays/archives/2012/11/when_it_com...

Re: Web3 and crypto skepticism is growing and people are finally starting to listen

#66

Post by smrtinsert » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

the_gastropod wrote: post #8

raxxorrax wrote: post #2

I would separate the crypto craze from Web3 to be honest. On its face it doesn't really have to do with crypto currency at all. A centralization is otherwise no really desirable for many users.

They're absolutely inseparable. Web3, at least as I understand its fuzzy definition, is: websites, but... state stored on the blockchain! There are virtually 0 technical reasons for doing this—decentralization and most of the "neat" examples shown (e.g., logging into arbitrary websites without signing up) can be done much better sans-blockchain, using plain old asymmetric keys. What's motivating this is people with d…

Immutable websites aren't an interesting idea?

Re: Web3 and crypto skepticism is growing and people are finally starting to listen

#67

Post by flokie » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

hervature wrote: post #40

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in theory, web3 has nothing to do with cryptocurrency per se, and only relies on some blockchain technology, which is itself not bound to the value of the currency it is used by. however, the fact that too many people seem to think that there is in fact a connection between web3 and crypto currency just adds to the smell.

How do you reconcile the fact that most of Web3 is built on Ethereum which only works because miners ("soon to be" stakers) are rewarded for running the blockchain?

this. the incentives are bound by the underlying tech.

Re: Web3 and crypto skepticism is growing and people are finally starting to listen

#68

Post by JaimeThompson » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

the_gastropod wrote: post #18

echelon wrote: post #7

I disagree with the article. > [...] as crypto becomes more mainstream and people experience its downsides, critics' warnings are starting to be heard. I'm not sure that public sentiment is actually being measured or is shown to be changing, or at least there's no evidence presented here. The biggest thing happening right now is the selloff, and I think that's happening due to the economic headwinds that face all ass…

> it's not doing any better Really? As of writing, the S&P500 is down ~10% from its all-time-high. Bitcoin is currently down over 50% of its ATH. Other cryptocurrencies are faring even worse. The stock market is doing significantly better. This is an oft frustrating topic in the world of cryptocurrency enthusiasm. The contemporary American banking and finance system is awful . It's worthy of a great many of criticism…

Crypto allow new middle men to come into existence which allows them to make money the "old fashioned way".

Re: Web3 and crypto skepticism is growing and people are finally starting to listen

#69

Post by endisneigh » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

streptomycin wrote: post #51

endisneigh wrote: post #13

Crypto has only existed during the greatest and longest bull market of all time. Jury is still out on whether it can survive a prolonged bear market. Web3 consequently is also bound by this. If people are still interested in Web3 when crypto goes down 10% YoY forever then maybe there’s some inherent value there.

https://i.imgur.com/BVoYAo6.png was this a prolonged bear market?

No, nor was it prolonged.

Re: Web3 and crypto skepticism is growing and people are finally starting to listen

#70

Post by apples_oranges » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

I like crypto, at least it's interesting. But what still annoys me is that I have to pay so much for sending money. It's hilarious, SEPA and other methods are cheaper. I bet Western Union is cheaper, and they have airport prices...