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FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

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Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#61

Post by moralestapia »

rootusrootus wrote: post #34
halpert wrote: post #14

Preview on Mac OS can do this. You hold your signature up to the camera and then it creates an image you can add to any pdf.

Preview has to be one of the most under-appreciated apps on MacOS. It implements so much handy everyday functionality that requires third-party software on Windows. Or did, last time I used Windows (admittedly some time ago).

Preview has an odd selection of functions, though. On one hand it allows you to do plenty of these functions that you mention, but otoh misses on very trivial stuff like "I'd like to make my image a bit larger so I could paste another one next to it".

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#62

Post by jsiepkes »

jve wrote: post #27

Don't know about different Jurisdictions, but from where I am - this has NO legal binding whatsoever. We have those gov issued digital, invisible signatures for that, embedded in our personal ID card. Whatever is properly signed with digital signature, the printed out page bears no legal force. Anyway, businesses still like to do it this way ("Signing" pdf by applying some pixels). I wonder if it is just an inconveni…

I don't know where you live but in the EU eIDAS regulation sees a scanned document as a Simple Electronic Signature (SES). This is the most basic possible form of signing which is accepted.

So within the EU a scanned document is valid though the law does say the method used needs to be proportional to whats at stake.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIDAS

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#63

Post by eof »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #55
radlad wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the US and as far as I know, a digital signature is completely valid. [edit: ~it's the same way here.~ Misinterpreted parent comment.] Yet Ford repeatedly insisted I print out the documents, sign them, and scan them. I tried a digital signature anyway - and they called me out on it.

"I tried a digital signature anyway" Do you mean: A) a cryptographic signature? B) an image of your handwritten signature? C) something else? I think you and GP might be talking about different things.

Presumably B).

I’ve had many instances where people insist I print, sign, scan, rather than e-sign.

I too have put an image of my signature on the pdf rather than printing; I have had those both rejected and accepted.

I don’t have a printer and have been annoyed by this insistence greatly. Enough that seeing this post filled me with glee.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#64

Post by wolfhumble »

rootusrootus wrote: post #34
halpert wrote: post #14

Preview on Mac OS can do this. You hold your signature up to the camera and then it creates an image you can add to any pdf.

Preview has to be one of the most under-appreciated apps on MacOS. It implements so much handy everyday functionality that requires third-party software on Windows. Or did, last time I used Windows (admittedly some time ago).

Yes, really. I use it all the time.

On feature that I use a lot in Preview is to combine pdf's. If you e.g. have a pdf invoice and want to combine that with the corresponding pdf receipt from the bank, I just open the two pdf files side by side in thumbnail view and just drag the pages (thumbnails) I want from one document to the other where I want to place them; rearranging the pages (thumbnails) later if I need to in the same thumbnail view. I am a huge fan of Preview! :-)

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#65

Post by legalcorrection »

radlad wrote: post #48
jve wrote: post #27

Don't know about different Jurisdictions, but from where I am - this has NO legal binding whatsoever. We have those gov issued digital, invisible signatures for that, embedded in our personal ID card. Whatever is properly signed with digital signature, the printed out page bears no legal force. Anyway, businesses still like to do it this way ("Signing" pdf by applying some pixels). I wonder if it is just an inconveni…

I'm in the US and as far as I know, a digital signature is completely valid. [edit: ~it's the same way here.~ Misinterpreted parent comment.] Yet Ford repeatedly insisted I print out the documents, sign them, and scan them. I tried a digital signature anyway - and they called me out on it.

This is wrong, in the US an electronic signature can be just about anything. See my comment here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30025456

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#66

Post by legalcorrection »

jve wrote: post #27

Don't know about different Jurisdictions, but from where I am - this has NO legal binding whatsoever. We have those gov issued digital, invisible signatures for that, embedded in our personal ID card. Whatever is properly signed with digital signature, the printed out page bears no legal force. Anyway, businesses still like to do it this way ("Signing" pdf by applying some pixels). I wonder if it is just an inconveni…

In the US, the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act, passed by most states, clarifies that basically any sound or symbol or process is a valid electronic signature. This is in line with general contract law, under which any manifestation, written or verbal or even non-verbal, that would reasonably be understood as assent, is sufficient to form a contract. Of course, if you want a court to enforce that contract, you're going to have to prove that the other party did provide assent.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#67

Post by radlad »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #55
radlad wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the US and as far as I know, a digital signature is completely valid. [edit: ~it's the same way here.~ Misinterpreted parent comment.] Yet Ford repeatedly insisted I print out the documents, sign them, and scan them. I tried a digital signature anyway - and they called me out on it.

"I tried a digital signature anyway" Do you mean: A) a cryptographic signature? B) an image of your handwritten signature? C) something else? I think you and GP might be talking about different things.

I meant B.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#68

Post by radlad »

legalcorrection wrote: post #65
radlad wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the US and as far as I know, a digital signature is completely valid. [edit: ~it's the same way here.~ Misinterpreted parent comment.] Yet Ford repeatedly insisted I print out the documents, sign them, and scan them. I tried a digital signature anyway - and they called me out on it.

This is wrong, in the US an electronic signature can be just about anything. See my comment here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30025456

What exactly is wrong? This doesn't contradict what I said. I agree my signature was valid without printing. It's frustrating that businesses do not.

edit: I see that I misinterpreted the parent comment. Sorry.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#70

Post by [deleted] »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #58
jve wrote: post #27

Don't know about different Jurisdictions, but from where I am - this has NO legal binding whatsoever. We have those gov issued digital, invisible signatures for that, embedded in our personal ID card. Whatever is properly signed with digital signature, the printed out page bears no legal force. Anyway, businesses still like to do it this way ("Signing" pdf by applying some pixels). I wonder if it is just an inconveni…

Same here. Real signatures on paper as well as cryptographic signatures are legally binding. Pasting a picture onto a PDF isn't but nobody wants to deal with the bureaucracy so they do it anyway. Getting a cryptographic token you can use to legally sign things is such a bureaucratic nightmare too, nobody wants to do it, including myself and I really like this stuff.

[deleted]
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