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Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

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61–70 of 329 posts

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#61
post #15

It just means that you don't own the software that you run. Always having to have an account and sign in and pay the subscription tax otherwise you lose access to it. Now with games becoming digital, if you break their 'terms of service' they can lock and ban your account; taking your 'digital' games away or even locking the console. (Unless you paid for the physical version.)

And hold your data hostage.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#62
Yes ugh, The App store is basically unusable right now because nearly every app requires a subscription. Maybe I shouldn't complain about this since I have a subscription service myself, but don't really know what alternatives I have since the service requires fixed costs. But still ugh.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#63
post #18

This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Given that developers need to be paid, and resources cost money, there needs to be a way to rectify that gap between the consumer and maintainer. At one point we did so by paying for an initial version of software, and then paying for updates. Now that we don’t do that, but…

>This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades.

Blame the victim?

We din't get any impression, as we don't set the prices. The companies set those prices.

For example Adobe customers never got or set any impression that "software should be free/low price". They paid 100s to 1000s of dollars for each update or package respectively, and they still got the mandatory subscription (and were some of the first users to be hit with one).

>How do you achieve super cheap products made by people making super high pay? Money doesn’t just materialize out of thin air to make that work.

We don't want "super cheap products", we want reasonably priced products we own after we buy.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#65

I don't think this is fundamentally about subscriptions. They're a different business model, but there are positives too: for example they align what users pay far more closely with the value they get from a product. If you use a tool for one month, you pay a small amount, if you use it every month for years you pay more. In the old world, if you wanted to use purchase-once software just once, then you had to pay far…

This is the kind of thing I'd like to see, I'm not opposed to subscription services by themselves but the predatory and shady practices that often accompany them have made me default to negative assumptions about products and services that use them. I wonder if there are any potential consumer protection laws that could make the situation better, such as:

  - The same mechanism to subscribe must also be available to unsubscribe
  - Automatic billing is not assumed and must be opt-in, perhaps renewed occasionally
  - If a user does not use your service for the billing period you cannot charge them for it

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#67
"Did he have hands? Did he have a face? Yes? Then it wasn't us."[0]

Are you old enough to have had a chance to use your eyes and look and see what's happened to computer games over the past twenty years? Things went from shareware and honest games to essentially NFT or addiction scams. There are good indie games here and there, but it's rare.

What's happened to games is happening to most other parts of software. There are exceptions of course, but they're rare at scale. If you don't want to pay for exploitative software don't use it. Find an open source alternative or an honest software broker. I know it sucks because what used to be a fair deal has turned sour, but accept that not only has the relationship has changed, but the landscape has too. The psychopaths read "data is the new oil"[1] and did an "orly?" and now they're here addicting grandmothers into squashing candy.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNDBo3spnwg

[1] https://twitter.com/theeconomist/status/860135249552003073

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#68
post #2

Seems to me that there is an inherent contradiction at the heart of SAAS. A service either: - Has a big enough moat that its immune to competition - in which case you get rent seeking behaviour; or - It's vulnerable and could disappear / become economically unviable so you wouldn't want to have your business rely on it. So you essentially have to choose between two unpalatable choices.

The moat is the sorry state of GUI for stand alone apps.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#69
post #63
post #18

This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Given that developers need to be paid, and resources cost money, there needs to be a way to rectify that gap between the consumer and maintainer. At one point we did so by paying for an initial version of software, and then paying for updates. Now that we don’t do that, but…

> This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Blame the victim? We din't get any impression, as we don't set the prices. The companies set those prices. For example Adobe customers never got or set any impression that "software should be free/low price". They paid 100s to 1000s of dollars for each update or package r…

The other model that works well is the open source one, with the maintainer having "another job"; e.g. academics doing scientific research (CERN!) or corporations who use the project internally. Unfortunately, the fact that the latter vastly outnumber the former means that the largest open-source projects are arguably corporate middleware or those of benefit to large corporations rather than users per se. People like me who use linux a lot are free software zealots. I wish Apple was more open on this -- they could quite easily be a hardware company and charge for services and yet make the code free -- but for whatever reason they've always kept the code close to their chest.

Subscriptions may make more sense as B2B software where the needs change over time, businesses tend to like having a two-way conversation more and a well-defined bill at the end of each year isn't necessarily a bad thing. As a private consumer though, selling a subscription is a surefire way to make me say no -- I'm not doing it.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#70
post #34
post #18

This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Given that developers need to be paid, and resources cost money, there needs to be a way to rectify that gap between the consumer and maintainer. At one point we did so by paying for an initial version of software, and then paying for updates. Now that we don’t do that, but…

> or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. To take IntelliJ as an example, I can't think of an improvement since 2018 that I really would pay for. Largely enabling that is why they moved to the subscription process because people like me would use IntelliJ 18 for five or so years then update for OS support or whatever. €100/yr is way more than I used to pay for intelliJ, €240/yr is way more t…

Your specific use case is explicitly afforded by Jetbrains licensing model. I don't think there is any problem to be had. You can buy a license now, use it for 5 years, then buy another.

https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What...

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