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Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

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Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#61

Post by troutmskreplica »

yesenadam wrote: post #9

First thing I clicked on was C minor... which showed me "C minor scale". Problem is.. Is that a thing? I've not heard of "the C minor scale". I don't think it's a thing. (Jazz pianist here) In classical piano as a kid I was taught 2 minor scales - melodic (different going up to coming down) and harmonic. Your "minor scale" corresponds to the melodic minor descending, aka Aeolian mode. (i.e. white piano notes from A u…

I’ve read through parts of the Wikipedia page several times in the past. It’s not ideal. I haven’t studied music theory systematically but I believe all the modes that contain a minor third above the root are technically considered minor scales (so Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian, and Locrian), but in addition to that there are of course other constructed scales like melodic minor and harmonic minor as you mention, as well as multiple different scales called the Blues minor scale (the only one I’m familiar with is the one constructed from the minor pentatonic plus a diminished fifth).

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#62

Post by yesenadam »

robbrown451 wrote: post #59
yesenadam wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I've already written too much on this page! But every part of that seems wrong or very strange. And just before what you quoted: > 3 Types of Minor Scales > There are three types of minor scales in music theory. What type of "music theory"? Dorian mode doesn't count? Maybe 3 in classical music theory, not in jazz or..rock/pop/contemporary music etc. And calling them "types" of minor scale sounds very odd to me.…

Well my experience is that the natural minor is treated as the "default" minor key. For instance, I always understood that A minor was all on white keys. Here is what the Wikipedia page for "A minor" starts with: "A minor is a minor scale based on A, with the pitches A, B, C, D, E, F, and G. Its key signature has no flats and no sharps. Its relative major is C major and is parallel major is A major." Then it goes on…

Well, you are confusing scales and keys, two different things - as is that wikipedia quote - but the point that the key of C major's "relative minor" key, in classical lingo, A minor, with the same key signature, uses the Aeolian, since A to A using the C major notes is Aeolian, is a good one, thanks.

[looks at the page] Wow, the scale of "A minor" has a wikipedia page?!..uh no, it seems it's about the key of A minor, and the whole thing confuses the key and the associated scale. That's very weird!

To explain slightly - in my understanding, saying a classical piece is "In C minor" as they do, usually means it starts and ends (at least) in the key of C minor. "C" means the root or I of the home/tonic chord is C, "minor" means the third is Eb ("major" would mean it's E). The fifth is always G, so not specified. This key specifies the (most important/initial) root triad. It says nothing about the other notes of the scale. The most important chord besides the I chord, the V7, has a B natural, which will usually occur often in the melody, and is not in the "natural minor" scale. Etc. Key =/= scale.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#63

Post by klodolph »

imbnwa wrote: post #54
klodolph wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a topic that I think is covered poorly sometimes. It's one of those things that is actually a much longer discussion. Think of it, in increasing complexity, 1. There is a major scale and a minor scale. 2. Actually, there are three minor scales: natural, melodic, and harmonic. 3. Actually, forget about those scales. Think instead more freely about tonality, modal mixtures, secondary dominants, and voice leadin…

>I think it's really that people like categorizing scales and learning new names for things, which also drives people's fascination with modes, which is totally out of proportion to how much you'd actually want to use them in music I don't get this. Modes show up all the time in popular music of the last 50 years. Am I missing something?

Would love to see an attempt to quantify how they show up "all the time".

When these discussions pop up, you see a lot of examples of songs that have borrowed chords or modal mixtures... "Oh, this song uses a mode in the bridge, or that song uses a mode except for the intro, or this other song switches between two modes." When songs have a lot of borrowed chords or borrowed notes, it more or less subsumes the idea of modes.

The problem is that modes are somewhat fragile things. As you mix more borrowed notes and borrowed chords into a song, the notes that make a mode sound like a mode get drowned out, and you're left with just a key center and a tonality (or not even that). That leaves precious few popular songs that actually sound like they're using a mode.

There are some specific genres where you see certain scales over and over, like the mixolydian scale in blues music, but blues typically relies so heavily on mixed tonalities.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#65

Post by schemathings »

Very cool - I think a nice addition would be to add some common chord progressions, e.g. https://takelessons.com/blog/piano-chord-progressions-z06 as an option at in each scale section. Would help people learning to do transpositions if you persist that option - also an option to invert the chords.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#66

Post by noduerme »

Nifty. The mouseup for the buttons should be placed on the body at the time the mousedown is triggered, because right now if you drag outside the button to highlight a set of keys and release the mouse on the background, the keys stay lit and only light/unlight when other buttons are clicked. (Alternative would be, at least, clear all the key highlights when any button is clicked).

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#67

Post by koide »

I've always been a melodic instrument player and have never had formal theory training - I'm trying to play the piano and I can't figure out how to harmonize (is this the right term?) a melody, this is, how to find or decide which chords go naturally with a specific melodic line. I know there are many alternatives and that the music sheets usually have the matching chords.

I want to write my own and I struggle to find proper chords to melodic lines. Can anyone recommend resources to learn this (and tell me if harmonization is the proper term)?

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#68

Post by noduerme »

klodolph wrote: post #43
yesenadam wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm I don't agree. That spacing looks right to me, but, now you mention it, the E,F,B and C notes look quite a bit too wide, I think that's the problem.

The spacing of the black keys is so far from the actual spacing on a real keyboard that I question how it could possibly look right to you. I would love to know if you actually have a real physical keyboard on hand, like I do, or if you are just going based on memory.

Literally just came across this thread after playing piano for the last couple hours, and I wouldn't have noticed it if it weren't pointed out. I think when you play you're just used to seeing all kinds of shorthand. I remember portable synthesizers from the 80s that actually did have this kind of relative size on black keys.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#69

Post by interpenetrate »

koide wrote: post #67

I've always been a melodic instrument player and have never had formal theory training - I'm trying to play the piano and I can't figure out how to harmonize (is this the right term?) a melody, this is, how to find or decide which chords go naturally with a specific melodic line. I know there are many alternatives and that the music sheets usually have the matching chords. I want to write my own and I struggle to fin…

I can't recommend any particular resources, but yes it's called harmonization and I'm sure you can get started by searching "how to harmonize a melody." YouTube has a billion videos on this sort of thing. You may also find it fun to play around with reharmonization, which is where you take an existing tune and find a new harmonization to match its melody.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#70

Post by malingo »

koide wrote: post #67

I've always been a melodic instrument player and have never had formal theory training - I'm trying to play the piano and I can't figure out how to harmonize (is this the right term?) a melody, this is, how to find or decide which chords go naturally with a specific melodic line. I know there are many alternatives and that the music sheets usually have the matching chords. I want to write my own and I struggle to fin…

Harmonization is the proper term. For a simple set of harmonization rules, check out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-part_harmony Old hymnals are a wealth of examples. Take a listen to this guy's YouTube channel: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC6BRCej5GRFLlovfZrNswqw
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