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Does Not Translate

doesnottranslate.com

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Re: Does Not Translate

#61

Post by awb »

School-Cotton wrote: post #45
hk__2 wrote: post #27

I’m always wary of these lists, because if you search for the languages you know you always see that most of them are actually translatable and/or rare expressions that nobody uses.

Also, a lot of the French ones, like “joie de vivre”, have been borrowed into English verbatim. “Joie de vivre” is indeed translatable into English, and the translation is just “joie de vivre”. To claim otherwise would be like saying that the concept of chile pepper can only be expressed in Nahuatl.

> “Joie de vivre” is indeed translatable into English, and the translation is just “joie de vivre”.

I’m a native English speaker and I’ve never heard of the expression “Joie de vivre”, so I don’t understand how “Joie de vivre” is the English translation of “Joie de vivre”.

Re: Does Not Translate

#62

Post by School-Cotton »

awb wrote: post #61
School-Cotton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, a lot of the French ones, like “joie de vivre”, have been borrowed into English verbatim. “Joie de vivre” is indeed translatable into English, and the translation is just “joie de vivre”. To claim otherwise would be like saying that the concept of chile pepper can only be expressed in Nahuatl.

> “Joie de vivre” is indeed translatable into English, and the translation is just “joie de vivre”. I’m a native English speaker and I’ve never heard of the expression “Joie de vivre”, so I don’t understand how “Joie de vivre” is the English translation of “Joie de vivre”.

Well, that’s unsurprising; nobody can know every expression in any language, even their native one.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/joie%20de%20vivre

Re: Does Not Translate

#63

Post by alar44 »

I don't know what I'm missing, but looking at the 53 English words I'm not seeing anything that can't be translated.

"Tall", "You're welcome". I'm sorry what?

Re: Does Not Translate

#64

Post by tremon »

School-Cotton wrote: post #45
hk__2 wrote: post #27

I’m always wary of these lists, because if you search for the languages you know you always see that most of them are actually translatable and/or rare expressions that nobody uses.

Also, a lot of the French ones, like “joie de vivre”, have been borrowed into English verbatim. “Joie de vivre” is indeed translatable into English, and the translation is just “joie de vivre”. To claim otherwise would be like saying that the concept of chile pepper can only be expressed in Nahuatl.

Also, many expressions have direct translations (sometimes even literal) in other languages from the same family/geographic area. For example, "joie de vivre" has a direct Dutch translation "levenslust". The German words "scheinheilig" and "totschweigen" have direct Dutch equivalents "schijnheilig" and "doodzwijgen", and the Swedish words "förrgår" and "övermorgon" have direct Dutch equivalents "eergisteren" and "overmorgen".

Then there's plenty examples where a direct English equivalent exists even if it's not a literal translation of the original: nachäffen (de) = na-apen (nl) = mimicking (en), but English lacks the animal connotation (Affe == aap == ape); schwarzfahren (de) = zwartrijden (nl) = fare dodging (en), but English loses the colour in the expression (Schwarz == zwart == black).

Funny thing also that it lists the Spanish "sobremesa" as after-dinner conversation, then lists the Dutch "natafelen" as lingering after having finished dinner, continuing conversation. The two are equivalent expressions, except that one is a noun and one is a verb. Same for "fremdschämen" (de) and "vergüenza ajena" (es), which is known in Dutch as "plaatsvervangende schaamte".

Re: Does Not Translate

#65

Post by dmitriid »

awb wrote: post #61
School-Cotton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, a lot of the French ones, like “joie de vivre”, have been borrowed into English verbatim. “Joie de vivre” is indeed translatable into English, and the translation is just “joie de vivre”. To claim otherwise would be like saying that the concept of chile pepper can only be expressed in Nahuatl.

> “Joie de vivre” is indeed translatable into English, and the translation is just “joie de vivre”. I’m a native English speaker and I’ve never heard of the expression “Joie de vivre”, so I don’t understand how “Joie de vivre” is the English translation of “Joie de vivre”.

I've seen it once or twice in a book (and I needed to look up its meaning/translation). And it's possible Stephen Fry used it once (possibly on QI).

It's one of those weird specific words that you use to show that you're smarter than you are (this doesn't apply to Stephen Fry of course :D )

Re: Does Not Translate

#66

Post by dmitriid »

Hamuko wrote: post #33
hk__2 wrote: post #27

I’m always wary of these lists, because if you search for the languages you know you always see that most of them are actually translatable and/or rare expressions that nobody uses.

The problem with this list in particular is that it's composed of user submissions on Reddit, where people probably only know their language + English + maybe a third language. For example, "björntjänst" under Swedish. If you actually check the Reddit post, you can see that people have posted "niedźwiedzia przysługa" (Polish), "Bärendienst" (German), "medveđa usluga" (Serbocroatian) and "bjørnetjeneste" (Norwegian) a…

> "medveđa usluga" (Serbocroatian)

Same in Russian: медвежья услуга (/mʲɪˈdvʲeʐjə ʊˈsluɡə/ in IPA)

Re: Does Not Translate

#67

Post by awb »

School-Cotton wrote: post #62
awb wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Joie de vivre” is indeed translatable into English, and the translation is just “joie de vivre”. I’m a native English speaker and I’ve never heard of the expression “Joie de vivre”, so I don’t understand how “Joie de vivre” is the English translation of “Joie de vivre”.

Well, that’s unsurprising; nobody can know every expression in any language, even their native one. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/joie%20de%20vivre

Surprising to me. I’m an avid reader of books and news and movie watcher and I’ve never heard this phrase once. I also took 3 years of French, went to a 4 year college and I’ve reviewed lists of foreign phrases commonly used in English with my kids, all while somehow dodging this phrase for ~40 years!

Re: Does Not Translate

#68

Post by dmitriid »

actually_a_dog wrote: post #35
Hokusai wrote: post #23

I think that 'Fika' is an interesting one. In Spanish, or at least in Spain, 'to go for a coffee' implies the same things that 'fika' does. Nobody expects to buy coffee to drink at the office, or at home, as to talk and socialize is more important than the coffee itself. I guess that in English speaking countries it could mean literally to go to buy a cup of coffee and hurry back with the coffee to your desk. Wouldn'…

It looks to me like "fika" is just like "chilling." See, for instance, https://www.swedishfood.com/fika

I like `fika` as a term because it now means almost any type of light social get-together where there's coffee/tea and possibly (but not necessarily!) sweets.

And that it can be used as a verb and as a noun. Russian speakers in Sweden have adopted the word `fika`, and now use it as a Russian word, too :D

Re: Does Not Translate

#69

Post by [deleted] »

awb wrote: post #61
School-Cotton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, a lot of the French ones, like “joie de vivre”, have been borrowed into English verbatim. “Joie de vivre” is indeed translatable into English, and the translation is just “joie de vivre”. To claim otherwise would be like saying that the concept of chile pepper can only be expressed in Nahuatl.

> “Joie de vivre” is indeed translatable into English, and the translation is just “joie de vivre”. I’m a native English speaker and I’ve never heard of the expression “Joie de vivre”, so I don’t understand how “Joie de vivre” is the English translation of “Joie de vivre”.

[deleted]

Re: Does Not Translate

#70

Post by quantumet »

tremon wrote: post #64
School-Cotton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, a lot of the French ones, like “joie de vivre”, have been borrowed into English verbatim. “Joie de vivre” is indeed translatable into English, and the translation is just “joie de vivre”. To claim otherwise would be like saying that the concept of chile pepper can only be expressed in Nahuatl.

Also, many expressions have direct translations (sometimes even literal) in other languages from the same family/geographic area. For example, "joie de vivre" has a direct Dutch translation "levenslust". The German words "scheinheilig" and "totschweigen" have direct Dutch equivalents "schijnheilig" and "doodzwijgen", and the Swedish words "förrgår" and "övermorgon" have direct Dutch equivalents "eergisteren" and "ove…

> Then there's plenty examples where a direct English equivalent exists even if it's not a literal translation of the original: nachäffen (de) = na-apen (nl) = mimicking (en), but English lacks the animal connotation (Affe == aap == ape)

Even here, english has the term 'aping': https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aaping, with the same meaning and retains the same animal connotation.

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