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History of Pepper

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Re: History of Pepper

#61

Several inaccuracies regarding Venice. Venice thrived in the 15th and 16th century, despite the claim of the article of Venice losing the pepper trade to Lisbon, and started to decline only at the beginning of the 17th century. Salt seems to have been at least as important as pepper. From the Wikipedia page on the Economic History of Venice [0]: > According to economic historian Jan De Vries, Venice's economic power…

It's history. There's bound to be vagaries of interpretation for different authors. But even given your source it doesn't seem so much inaccurate as mostly corroborated

  > De Vries attributes this decline to the loss of the spice trade
And regarding the date I don't think you can over specify the meaning of the article's sentence on Venice to induce an inaccuracy.

Vasco de Gama’s discovery of a sea-route to the spice lands ... in 1498 ... destroyed the economies of Alexandria, Genoa and Venice

Sure, you could read that as: "Venice's economy was destroyed the moment de Gama set foot on the spice lands", but it seems an equally, if not more, valid reading (and much more generous and reasonable), to assume what is meant is that de Gama's discovery eventually destroyed those economies...as in, it was an inflection point that tipped the scales in Portugal's favor and helped begin the processes that directly lead to the incumbents' declines.

Reasonable given that no one expects economies of empires to be destroyed overnight. With empire-scale reserves, and monopoly advantages the process could reasonably take a century, of course (and a century being roughly the span from 1498 to the 17th century). And generous given that, since the decline date is so easily found on a resource as common as Wikipedia, it's unlikely they are mistaken by not being erudite enough.

The lack of elaborating temporal detail is even less damning, given the economy the article seems to want to take with words, sparing a mere two sentences on large swathes of history. With this sort of compact language, who can expect them to pedantically agonize over removing every possible divergent interpretation, and achieve unequivocal precision?

I think the more likely situation is the article is perfectly accurate on that point, and you've simply read an inaccuracy into it by misinterpreting the authors' omission of absolute precision as error.

Re: History of Pepper

#62
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about chili peppers is that they're not healthy (have medicinal benefits) in the way peppercorn and long pepper do. Capsaicin can be harmful in large quantities, IIUC. There are South Indian foods and snacks like venpongal and methu vadai that use whole peppercorn, not chili peppers. Tomato is another colonialism byproduct, but there are still people who make versions that use lemons instead of tomatoes. A…

I don't subscribe to the opinion that all "imports" are bad, and that everything indigenous was miraculous and glorious. For goodness' sake, you probably typed your message on a Chinese-made device in a language that is not your mother tongue, as did I. That doesn't make us less of anything, does it? Even the quintessentially southern Idli is rumoured to be a 12th century import brought down to the south by migrating…

You seemed to have misunderstood what I was saying.

I was pointing out that specifically in the case of chili spice, I don't think it's good for the body. There are data to support the idea that eating large amounts of capsaicin is harmful to the body: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods/chili-peppers#dow...

Meanwhile, go to the vitamin supplement section of your nearest store, look at the ingredients of turmeric tablets, and you'll see they have a disclaimer that they have trace amounts of black pepper to magnify the effect of turmeric.

Everything else you said is fine by me because I wasn't arguing for it or against it.

Oranges and millets probably came from China, bananas probably came from SE Asia (and these things probably before the Sangam age, which is before the Pallavas and the height of the Cholas, so clearly exchange was happening for longer than we know).

A slight correction to what you said, idli came from a Pallava king in the 13th century who married a bride from a Indonesia who in turn brought along cooks who liked using rice. They combined rice with lentils to make idli: https://youtu.be/7pxEXHxSQzU

To be clear, I know that rice has been grown in South Asia since the time of the Indus Valley Civilization (>= 4500 years ago), but all I'm saying is specifically about idli.

Re: History of Pepper

#63
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't subscribe to the opinion that all "imports" are bad, and that everything indigenous was miraculous and glorious. For goodness' sake, you probably typed your message on a Chinese-made device in a language that is not your mother tongue, as did I. That doesn't make us less of anything, does it? Even the quintessentially southern Idli is rumoured to be a 12th century import brought down to the south by migrating…

You seemed to have misunderstood what I was saying. I was pointing out that specifically in the case of chili spice, I don't think it's good for the body. There are data to support the idea that eating large amounts of capsaicin is harmful to the body: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods/chili-peppers#dow... Meanwhile, go to the vitamin supplement section of your nearest store, look at the ingredients of turme…

Apologies, it looks like I indeed misunderstood what you were trying to convey.
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