More voodoo, selection bias, hiring B.S. Why hire on the basis of ability, when you can make up arbitrary criteria? Everyone is exactly like me, right?
If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you
61–70 of 105 posts
Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you
#62The HN response here is crazy.
Obviously 40 year olds are going to have less side projects, and obviously there are devs out there that treat development as a job, not a passion. I know a very good python dev that fits that description.
But seriously, no free time for side projects? Really? Absolutely no time?
It takes 30 mins to whip up something sorta kinda neat. That's an episode of Entourage. Give me a break with all this kids talk, eight year olds go to bed early, and teenagers don't need all that much attention every single day. Sure, help 'em with homework, etc. But lets face some facts, there are plenty of unpaid OSS developers that happen to be parents and they don't whine about not having enough time.
Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
As would be the case if you worked for some of the Bay Areas biggest names in tech.
I thought those contracts were not enforceable in CA? I'm most definitely not a lawyer tho, so I have little to back that up, but it's what I read in Joel Spolsky's answer here: http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-...
Generally they are not enforcable, but it doesn't stop folks like Google and Cisco from having them. And they are written with big letters in the front "THIS IS AN AT WILL ARRANGEMENT ..." which basically says they can fire you at any time for any reason and later "We own everything you do while you work for us."
Basically the message is "Sure work on your own projects and we will decide it's no longer in our best interest in employing you." and "If you do a side project and publish it or let it out in any way, we may decide its no longer in our best interest to employ you." I have heard stories of course but only have first hand knowledge of one person with whom Google decided to fire because they did some open source work they didn't like.
When I asked an employment attorney about these sorts of things his advice was that I could probably sue them and win but it was simpler and less expensive to just quit if I really wanted to work on other stuff.
Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you
#64I have found that I usually start working on pet projects when I am dissatisfied with my job. At my last job, I found myself working on several different extracurricular projects at once. I kind of realized that this meant it was time to leave (and do my own startup). If I found someone who was supremely happy with his job, I would expect that any extra time would be spent at work, either making the product better or…
I'd expect someone supremely happy with their standard salaried job wouldn't be first out of the office every night, but I'd be alarmed if they were expected to dedicate their evenings and weekends to making their employers richer.
Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you
#65If you have a life, I don't want you. If you have a family, I don't want you. If you have enough energy to do your work but not enough energy that after work you can work some more, I don't want you. What is it that makes employers so enamored of people with 'pet projects'? Are they easier to take advantage of? Do they work long hours without expecting compensation? Does not having dependents mean that it's easier to…
> If you have a life, I don't want you.
Seriously, there is a lot of judgement in that sentence.
"Having a life", having a family is a matter of choice. I can choose not to have a family and work on my pet projects. I choose how I spend my time. If I sacrifice relationships in favor of pet projects, does that make me a lesser person? could it possibly make me a better software developer?
Is it really unreasonable to imagine that there are many talented software developers in the "lifeless" set of people with pet projects? Perhaps the author is of the opinion that the set of people with pet projects have higher ratio of talent compared to the full set. That is not to say that there are not passionate talented people without pet projects.
Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you
#66If you have a life, I don't want you. If you have a family, I don't want you. If you have enough energy to do your work but not enough energy that after work you can work some more, I don't want you. What is it that makes employers so enamored of people with 'pet projects'? Are they easier to take advantage of? Do they work long hours without expecting compensation? Does not having dependents mean that it's easier to…
I agree that not having side projects shouldn't be a disqualification, but I disagree that it shouldn't be a factor at all. Depending on the project it can show enthusiasm, a desire to learn technologies other than what your job uses, and the ability to carry through from an initial idea to a shipping product.
Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you
#67The HN response here is crazy. Obviously 40 year olds are going to have less side projects, and obviously there are devs out there that treat development as a job, not a passion. I know a very good python dev that fits that description. But seriously, no free time for side projects? Really? Absolutely no time? It takes 30 mins to whip up something sorta kinda neat. That's an episode of Entourage. Give me a break with…
Travel 50-100% for current job. Having a kid with special needs. Having multiple children. Owning a home. Aging parents with disabilities. Outdoors/Travel nut (you or spouse). Civic/political/community involvement.
Any of these personal situations can eat into your "personal" time considerably. Add up 2 or more, and your remaining personal time is what you carve out of your sleep hours.
I'm lucky that I don't have to work two jobs like of the less fortunate, and I don't fall into all (or even most) of the categories above, but I don't watch TV and I don't have a github page.
Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you
#68See also "I don't program in my spare time. Does that make me a bad developer?" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2664243
My thoughts on spare-time projects in relation to other professions: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2664358
Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you
#69And if that causes you not to want someone, then I don't want you!
Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you
#70In my experience, candidates with major pet projects, especially ones that aren't related to their current job, fall into one or more of the following categories: * They don't have life, and are usually not the most pleasant people to work with, let alone communicate with non-programmers. * For some reason cannot find a job that involves the passion/knowledge/skill they put into their pet project. The job market for…
I have pet projects. I also have a life. I have a job that involves putting my knowledge/skill/passion to work to a degree. Even if my employer would allow me to write each project in whatever programming language I was obsessed with that week, I wouldn't, because I don't want to maintain all my whims. Personal projects can be thrown away easily or restarted. All that work can be done without _any_ business concerns. That's just not reasonable for a paying job.
I have a lot of passion for programming and I hack it quite well in a professional environment, thank you very much. My passion requires that I fiddle about with personal projects so I can test out new languages, frameworks, styles, libraries, paradigms, etc. without any business concerns in the least. If there is a place where I could get paid well to just hack on whatever the hell seems fun at the moment, I'd definitely make a concerted effort to work there--I don't think it exists.