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More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

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Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#61

Post by syki »

baby-yoda wrote: post #44
syki wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enrollment in higher ed decreased 7% from 2008 to 2018. It’s not true that colleges have been expanding with zero constraints. The increase in tuition at public colleges and universities has occurred with the decrease in public funding per student. At my system 20 years ago roughly 60% of the cost of education was publicly funded and now it is 40%. We’ve correspondingly increased tuition. https://nces.ed.gov/programs…

thank you for linking stats. going back to 1998 there is clearly huge growth. total enrollment might already be taking a hit but i am referring more to the expenditure side of things - dorm buildings, campus luxuries, etc. the figures from your link display this, IMO. especially the expenditures. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/figures/fig_12.asp but to be fair, yes the stats do indicate a decrease in enrollm…

There was growth in enrollment up until 2010. Colleges have been struggling since then. They need bodies and need to attract students. Standards for acceptance have gone down and grade inflation has gone up. Though grade inflation has been a thing for many decades now.

As to your question. It’s easier to get a degree now since standards have been lowered since we need to retain students. The cost of acquiring a student is much higher than retaining a student so a lot of effort has gone into retention. What this boils down to in my opinion is the need to pass students. Not failing students is the easiest way to retain them.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#62

Post by maxerickson »

GnarfGnarf wrote: post #49

Start by lowering tuition fees. University administrations have become bloated, profiteering from the truism that you gotta go to college to get a good job. I got my B.A. in 1968; I owed $800 balance on my student loan ($6,400 today). My plumber just charged me $430 to install a sink, about an hour and a half's work. That doesn't include the cost of the sink. Are Gender Studies majors making this kind of money?

Government dollars went a lot further when a smaller percentage of people were enrolling in college. And there was unmet demand for college educated professionals (which is true in some fields today, but probably not as broadly true), so there was more willingness to spend government dollars educating people.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#63

Post by lordnacho »

We have to do something about what people think college is to an employer. I'm excluding courses where you specifically need the degree: medicine, law, and maybe some others. Clearly you can't be a doctor or lawyer who hasn't passed his exams. Also if you are going to be a professor or phd naturally you will need to have studied whatever it is.

For everyone else, all college does is shows people that you are diligent: you read the books, wrote the essays, passed the quizzes.

Now, the thing is most jobs are not directly related to any particular degree. For example if you become an option trader like I did, nothing on my Engineering/Econ/Mgt was relevant. Even the finance parts of the management course were not relevant. You learn on the job. Think about it, you are at work 50-70 hours a week the whole year vs splitting your time at uni over a much shorter calendar. At work you sit next to an expert, at school you sit next to novices.

So the whole idea that college qualifies you to do something is bogus. It's mainly a signal that you're teachable, and a weak signal that you're interested in some particular broad area.

I would guess that the great majority of jobs that people with degrees take could have been done by the same people without their degree. You'll never get people to admit that if you aren't friends with them, but that is generally what people think as well.

Are there other benefits to college? Certainly. You get to socialize, mature a bit away from home, and for most people it's the last time they are exposed to the great ideas that mankind has found over the centuries. Those things can all be done separately without paying for it, but currently the system is broken and everyone uses degrees as a social status marker, which is self-reinforcing: you still need a degree because if you don't have one you can't get those jobs that you don't need a degree to perform.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#64

Post by bryanlarsen »

ars wrote: post #50
johnebgd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with highly infectious diseases is those who get it also infect others. The professors are likely in the age bracket that has a higher risk than the student.

The Professor is guaranteed to get it. A Professor comes in contact with way too many people to even have a chance of not getting it. You're just pretending that you can actually do something by making restrictions, you actually can't.

China has been very successful at preventing the original variants from spreading. So they provide an existence proof that it is possible, at least pre-Omicron.

I'd rather live with ineffective American lockdowns than effective Chinese ones, but the Chinese example falsifies your statement.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#65

Post by monkeynotes »

ChicagoDave wrote: post #28

I have 3 college-aged kids and one nearly there. Their universal concern is the cost. It has become prohibitive. Colleges assumed the trend of charging $25k to $50k per year would be sustainable. They were dead wrong, especially given the horrendously predatory loans backed by the government and barred from bankruptcy. If we fix the college financial system, enrollment would likely skyrocket.

In addition there is COVID which means a lot of online learning and none of the college social experience. I know of a coop on my team is considering pausing finishing his degree because he hates online learning and does not feel like he's getting the education he paid for.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#66

Post by epistasis »

MattGaiser wrote: post #60
ChicagoDave wrote: post #28

I have 3 college-aged kids and one nearly there. Their universal concern is the cost. It has become prohibitive. Colleges assumed the trend of charging $25k to $50k per year would be sustainable. They were dead wrong, especially given the horrendously predatory loans backed by the government and barred from bankruptcy. If we fix the college financial system, enrollment would likely skyrocket.

Aren't state colleges must cheaper than that?

Without room and board, University of California fees are around $20k. And none of the college towns have adequate housing, so any sort of housing is absolutely through the roof.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#67

Post by disambiguation »

syki wrote: post #34
disambiguation wrote: post #27

Less than 3k kids under the age of 24 have died from covid since the start of the pandemic [0] yet they have some how wound up with the harshest restrictions. These kids will never get these years back. What a disgrace. [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex...

In my college system I’m responsible for cleaning my classroom after each use. If I forget to do this and a student gets sick then I’m personally liable. I’m not paid enough to clean classrooms and teach and I’m not taking on the liability. Thus, I haven’t taught in the classroom for the last 2 years.

that's too bad, surface transmission has been debunked for almost a year now.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/science-and-r...

> the relative risk of fomite transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is considered low compared with direct contact, droplet transmission, or airborne transmission

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#68

Post by disambiguation »

inanutshellus wrote: post #40
disambiguation wrote: post #27

Less than 3k kids under the age of 24 have died from covid since the start of the pandemic [0] yet they have some how wound up with the harshest restrictions. These kids will never get these years back. What a disgrace. [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex...

"I'm young and healthy, I should be allowed to spread a new virus to the entire planet. The health of my society is not my responsibility. What a disgrace."

In other news, "Children are Infrequently Identified as the Index Case of Household SARS-CoV-2 Clusters"

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/72/12/e1146/6024998

> In analysis of the cluster index cases ... only 3.8% were identified as having a pediatric index case.

> These pediatric cases only caused 4.0% of all secondary cases, compared with the 97.8% of secondary cases that occurred when an adult was identified as the index case in the cluster.

> Clusters where the asymptomatic/symptomatic status of the contact cases was not described were excluded from the analysis. Even with this broader definition, 18.5% children were identified as the index case in the household clusters.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#69

Post by Bhilai »

disambiguation wrote: post #27

Less than 3k kids under the age of 24 have died from covid since the start of the pandemic [0] yet they have some how wound up with the harshest restrictions. These kids will never get these years back. What a disgrace. [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex...

I dont disagree with the sentiment on lost years but I think its very easy to say that in retrospect. At beginning of 2020, no one knew how severe the pandemic is going to be. We did not have a vaccine and we did not know which age groups are going to be most vulnerable.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#70

Post by tomschlick »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #64
ars wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Professor is guaranteed to get it. A Professor comes in contact with way too many people to even have a chance of not getting it. You're just pretending that you can actually do something by making restrictions, you actually can't.

China has been very successful at preventing the original variants from spreading. So they provide an existence proof that it is possible, at least pre-Omicron. I'd rather live with ineffective American lockdowns than effective Chinese ones, but the Chinese example falsifies your statement.

Yeah I wouldn't believe anything related to the virus coming from China, especially numbers that make the CCP look good. They have too much of an incentive to lie, even more so that its finally not taboo to believe that the Wuhan lab was responsible for the outbreak.
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