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Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

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Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#61

Post by DavidPiper »

zacmps wrote: post #50
Gigachad wrote: post #46

This is extremely impressive. It’s the first GAN I have seen which lets you tweak the result in a meaningful way rather than being just random. I think the speed that GANs have come in to the world has really shaken people up and it’s hard to process what this all means and what it will result in. Especially the ones which generate based on real people. But the feeling this gives me, is what happens for the future of…

We have been here before, and we certainly will again. It was not so long ago computers bet humans at chess, yet people still play.

I've been thinking about this a bit lately, incomplete thoughts ahead...

Yes, people still play, but they no longer create.

With the exception of Adversarial attacks on particular algorithms, no human is creating new Chess theory, discovering new openings, for example.

As a game, challenge, competition, social activity, chess is alive and well.

As a creative endeavour, or vehicle for discovery, Chess is solved. It is no longer an art of its own.

We're part way through this transition now with Go as well. New opening theory, new joseki, new strategies are being played by robots, and at the highest professional levels we are playing catch-up to understand.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#63

Post by unobatbayar »

liuru wrote: post #2

Hey HN, one of the team members here! I hope you all enjoy playing with the new and improved generator! We've been hard at work improving the model quality since the last time the site was posted[1] As both a professional fantasy illustrator & software engineer, I find the concept of AI creativity so fascinating. On one hand, I know that mathematically AI only can hallucinate images that fit within the distribution o…

The quality and style is mindblowing! What data did you train?

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#64

Post by lmm »

DavidPiper wrote: post #61
zacmps wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have been here before, and we certainly will again. It was not so long ago computers bet humans at chess, yet people still play.

I've been thinking about this a bit lately, incomplete thoughts ahead... Yes, people still play, but they no longer create. With the exception of Adversarial attacks on particular algorithms, no human is creating new Chess theory, discovering new openings, for example. As a game, challenge, competition, social activity, chess is alive and well. As a creative endeavour, or vehicle for discovery, Chess is solved. It is…

> With the exception of Adversarial attacks on particular algorithms, no human is creating new Chess theory, discovering new openings, for example.

That's not true though? Human chessplayers are constantly exploring new lines, and engines are a useful tool but by no means the bottom line - indeed lines that were neglected because engines gave them low evaluations have been a fruitful source of ideas lately, because humans play differently from engines and may not be able to find the refutation.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#65

Post by Bombthecat »

unobatbayar wrote: post #63
liuru wrote: post #2

Hey HN, one of the team members here! I hope you all enjoy playing with the new and improved generator! We've been hard at work improving the model quality since the last time the site was posted[1] As both a professional fantasy illustrator & software engineer, I find the concept of AI creativity so fascinating. On one hand, I know that mathematically AI only can hallucinate images that fit within the distribution o…

The quality and style is mindblowing! What data did you train?

The more interesting question: What about the sources for the AI to train? How are those artists paid? Do we need to pay them? Or if it used by an AI as train data, we just say: Its like a human learning?

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#66

Post by marcan_42 »

JetAlone wrote: post #42
kouteiheika wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the terms of use for the images generated through your website? I'm guessing any commercial use is forbidden? It would be nice if you could formally spell it out on the website.

I don't think there's any powerful enough way to stop people from generating one and then tracing over it to create their own linework, and customize things like the colouring and shading. The more broadly AI is able to create, the more niche and obfuscated directions human co-creators could take its products in.

Not to mention the copyrightability of AI output isn't legally well tested, and chances are it'll fall in the direction of being copyrighted by the user (i.e. the person clicking in the UI to make a character, which is where creative input happens), not by the AI creator (who has no creative input into the process; they merely made a tool, like any other piece of software - same reason documents printed from Microsoft Word aren't copyrighted by Microsoft).

I'm not entirely sure how much legal weight a ToS on the website would have on what the users do with the output. As I understand it, you could e.g. forbid explicitly using the service/generator for commercial purposes (e.g. during game development), but if someone generates a cool character playing around with no particular commercial objective and then decides post facto to build a media megafranchise out of that character, absent any copyright claim over the image, I don't think there's anything stopping them. They wouldn't even need to trace over it, though if they want new artwork in different poses, they couldn't keep using the AI for that with explicit commercial intent; they'd have to get humans to re-draw it.

Alternatively, a pessimistic view of the interaction between copyright and AI would be that the model is a derivative work of all the training input, and its output also is, and then good luck building a non copyright infringing AI.

IANAL and all that, but it would definitely be legally risky to assume that as the provider of an AI generator you have any control over what users do with the output.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#67

Post by Bombthecat »

Cixelyn wrote: post #9
kadokaelan wrote: post #3

The explainer video about gans is top-notch! Excited for Arrowmancer!

(link for the lazy: https://youtu.be/Pab8pG5WbXQ ) Thanks so much! It's done by our fantastic animator[1]! GANs are quite interesting and we didn't see many approachable explainer videos targeted at lay people, so we decided to make one ourselves! [1] https://twitter.com/bumblingbeebo

Is there a gameplay video? Or at least screenshots of arrowverse?

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#68

Post by bmitc »

Gigachad wrote: post #46

This is extremely impressive. It’s the first GAN I have seen which lets you tweak the result in a meaningful way rather than being just random. I think the speed that GANs have come in to the world has really shaken people up and it’s hard to process what this all means and what it will result in. Especially the ones which generate based on real people. But the feeling this gives me, is what happens for the future of…

Art isn't about statical copying or drawing well. It's about human expression.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#69

Post by jhanschoo »

numlock86 wrote: post #51
greenn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly asking, isn't this stuff usually Japanese characters? I dunno if theres even "data" they could use for other skin tones

Well, there is (or rather was) "ganguro" at least, which appeared in mangas an animes occasionally, too. Not sure how many people would be getting offended by that these days, though.

Ganguro is associated with a certain Japanese subculture and aesthetic, and not meant at all to represent darker-skinned races. There are works that feature a more diverse cast, but perhaps the proportion of representation accurately reflects what you would see in Japanese society.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#70

Post by 9dev »

DavidPiper wrote: post #61
zacmps wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have been here before, and we certainly will again. It was not so long ago computers bet humans at chess, yet people still play.

I've been thinking about this a bit lately, incomplete thoughts ahead... Yes, people still play, but they no longer create. With the exception of Adversarial attacks on particular algorithms, no human is creating new Chess theory, discovering new openings, for example. As a game, challenge, competition, social activity, chess is alive and well. As a creative endeavour, or vehicle for discovery, Chess is solved. It is…

But isn’t that inevitably the final form of any highly complex tactics game (in lieu of a better word) humans create? I guess we reached the ceiling of what we can fathom on our own, so the logical next step is to hand over to robots that can grasp a wider range of possibilities, and learn from them.

I once heard someone say people will never be able to understand God’s plan, just as a dog will never be able to really understand why their owners do things the way they do them. I feel like this is a similar threshold; a humans mind is incredible, but not perfectly suited for thinking in advance, or calculating probabilities.

So I guess my point is, while this certainly feels a little scary, I think it’s just a consequence of the game, and probably okay.

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