Live data from Hacker News

No Way to Grow Up

nytimes.com

61–70 of 714 posts

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#61
post #20
post #8

Quoted post unavailable.

Typically, reliable authority. Though the organization as a whole is often targeted by right-wing propaganda outlets much more critically than right-wing propaganda is denounced by the rest of society. This article is a hashing out of concerns parents or others have regarding children and how they've experienced COVID-19 as well as associate non-pharmaceutical interventions. Dynamic control problems are hard, even mo…

That was rhetorical. I'm saying that our population is largely composed of capricious bugbrains.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#62
I agree that adults have failed kids during the pandemic, but the agenda that this article is pushing is deeply, deeply flawed. The consequences the pandemic is having on kids is not due to schools being closed, it's due to kids growing up in the middle of a society collapsing under the weight of a pandemic.

To argue that we shouldn't have closed schools, or should have made things more normal for the kids is to say that our half-assed mealy-mouthed nothing of a response to the pandemic didn't work, so we should have done even less, tried to spread the virus even harder, and that would have made things better. No. What would have made things better is a real, collective, and effective response to the pandemic. Modeling a real, pro-social, collaborative, and reasonable response to the pandemic.

Of course it's not _fair_ that kids are being kept away from school while hoards of adults are too obsessed with proving they have freedom to consider how to use their freedom to act appropriately. It's not fair that they can't get an education, but hoards of the unmasked, unvaxxed, and unconcerned can huff and puff their way through bars, restaurants, gyms, clubs, and every other super spreader event they care to name without a concern for the costs of their actions to them or anyone else.

Fair would have been for everyone to do their part, to exercise a modicum of self control, and work together to actually contain things, keep them to a reasonable level, and then let things get back to normal in the ways we can, and have a clear plan for how to monitor and react to changes in the future. Fair would be everyone working together to make this thing actually be over, at least for some periods of time, rather than making the reasonable people pay the entire burden for the whims of the hoards of pro-plague cultists.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#63
I wonder if this pandemic will change our views on the pace of vaccine testing in children. There might be a willingness to begin testing in children sooner though I doubt we would ever test in children at the same time as adults.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#64

I'm not sure I like this article. They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim. For example the article says > Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. But when you go to the study they link, it says > Although school closures reduce the number of contacts children have, and may decrease transmission, a study of 12 million adults in the UK found no diffe…

I think the article does a good job at looking at this as a trade-off. No where in the article do they state outright that there is no change to transmission. The main point is to ask the question "Is avoiding the damage to those that are older worth the damage to those that are younger?"

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#65

I'm not sure I like this article. They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim. For example the article says > Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. But when you go to the study they link, it says > Although school closures reduce the number of contacts children have, and may decrease transmission, a study of 12 million adults in the UK found no diffe…

Seconding @wayouthere. I saw this sentence:

> They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim.

And thought, "Right, yeah, it's the NYT." They're not fake news like Breitbart, but I seem to catch them 'pushing the envelope' on the truth a lot. And I like/agree with a fair amount of what they publish.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#66
post #13

If kids have to save the grown ups, then they have a strong bargaining position to e.g. fix the climate ASAP. => Why don't they use it?

Because they have neither power nor authority. First, kids don't have a vote so they really have no direct influence in a democratic/representative republic system. Second, they have no money, so they have limited ability to exert financial/economic pressure. What are they supposed to bargain with? They are (as a population, individuals may be exceptions to this) fundamentally dependent upon the adult population for…

The main problem I see is that kids are not (yet) organized.

There is a pandemic going on. Kids can "vote" with their behavior.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#67
post #48
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We didn't have positive or negative evidence that children weren't an at-risk group Why aren't the low death rates for the 0-17 cohort enough?

Because people are experiencing long-term effects besides death.

How good is this data? How does it compare to long term effects of other common viral infections?

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#68

I'm not sure I like this article. They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim. For example the article says > Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. But when you go to the study they link, it says > Although school closures reduce the number of contacts children have, and may decrease transmission, a study of 12 million adults in the UK found no diffe…

Hm, I found David Leonhardt's summary of that article to be fairly sound – it even opens with "School closures have been implemented internationally with insufficient evidence for their role in minimising covid-19 transmission."

"[A]ccumulating evidence shows that teachers and school staff are not at higher risk of hospital admission or death from covid-19 compared with other workers" quote seems most pertinent. Other quotes that certainly back the paraphrase include "teacher absence decreased in tier 3 regions during the November lockdown despite schools remaining open" and "Teacher absence because of confirmed covid-19 in England was similar in primary and secondary schools in the autumn term."

Finally, the "Transmission" section explicitly casts doubt on studies that did show a reduction in transmission. Overall, "skeptical," as the linked NYT article states, seems dead on.

Were there other sources from the article that you took issue with?

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#69

I am very thankful that my youngest graduated high school in 2020. The last couple of months were screwed up, but there wasn't much real education lost by then; most seniors pretty much check out after Spring Break anyway. I really feel for the kids who are younger. The effects of this are going to be with us for decades.

Decades? I missed 3 months of 4th grade. The teacher said I should be stuck back in 3rd because 4th grade had moved along so quickly. My mom said no, and put me in the 4th grade class around Christmastime.

I wasn't a day behind. The class had not advanced at all.

But I'm sure the pandemic will be blamed for school unachievement for decades. It's a godsend to the school industrial complex.

Post reply on HN