Live data from Hacker News

The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

newyorker.com

61–70 of 175 posts

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#61

"His girlfriend Taren always dealt with taxi-drivers, with waitresses." "The guy in front of me’s leaning all the way back, but I’m in the last row so my seat doesn’t go back, and I have to lift my legs up to stretch out a muscle that was sitting funny while I was asleep" I feel like Aaron Swartz was never truly an adult, just a boyish intellectual. I can't imagine his submissive behavior was a net positive to his me…

And it sounds like he was perfectly aware of this. This feeling of being "not really a man" can be overwhelming, and I feel like this is an incredibly toxic thing perpetuated by our culture.

It's possible to spend an entire lifetime trying to prove the opposite of this statement to the world, and most importantly oneself, and fail at this impossible task. But the saddest part is that because the majority of people think in these "man/boy" terms it's easy to start thinking that all people do.

The next step is to consider oneself hopelessly broken and unworthy of affection, and dismiss any real friendship as a pity party. And yet: there was an outpouring of love and sadness following aaronsw's suicide. So perhaps living up to the stereotype of manliness is not the most important thing in the world.

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#62

Refreshingly well-researched and honest piece from the New Yorker. My favourite writing by Aaron is his explanation of what happens in the "ending" of Infinite Jest. [1] I'm of the opinion DFW deliberately left it somewhat open to interpretation, and that his famous quote "If no such convergence or projection occurred to you, then the book’s failed for you" was a tad tongue in cheek. That said, Aaron's explanation is…

> Refreshingly well-researched and honest piece from the New Yorker. My impression is quite the opposite. This piece by Larissa MacFarquhart was a contemptible whitewash of government bullies. "New Yorker" is squarely in the corner of intelligence agencies and law enforcement and against the people, and not just in this particular case.

I'm curious how it's a whitewash of government bullies when that's not the point of the article? It's pretty clear at the start that it's about how his friends and family perceived him, and his backstory - I was aware of the overall narrative, but found it extremely interesting to hear stories of his challenges with interacting with the world.

In general, I respect and appreciate content that takes someone who has been lionized (especially posthumously) and humanizes them. People are complicated, the narrative is rarely as simple as it's distilled down for public consumption.

As far as the "squarely in the corner of intelligence agences and law enforcement" - that wasn't my impression, and while I did not spend hours researching, I went through the "police" tag on the new yorker website, and in the last year, 10 out of 21 articles were overtly critical of police, and only ~2 could be considered positive towards police. The remainder were either neutral, nuanced, or orthogonal (e.g. photo essays about a woman who was embedded with the police for several years). Do you have evidence to back up your assertion?

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#63
post #43

Alexandra Elbakyan is still alive and well, and Sci-Hub is going strong. Swartz' prosecution and persecution were totally pointless. Copyright is unenforceable.

Persecution? He broke the law and was likely to get a slap on the wrist.

> He broke the law and was likely to get a slap on the wrist.

Sometimes, the law is unjust and it is greater injustice to administer any punishment at all.

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#64

It's sad how the system punishes smart altruists. If you're smart, you'd better be evil or the system will destroy you.

This is such an insightful observation. I think to the critical thinker its clear capitalism doesn't allow dissent past a certain point. Sure, you can be an altruist in small way that don't threaten the status quo like giving to charity or volunteering, but when you go against the under-pinnings of our system, namely intellectual property laws, then you're going to be defeated. We also saw this with Lawrence Lessig who is now an entirely unknown person but before was a Kardashian-level celeb on the internet due to his criticisms of copyright and patents.

So there's no place for a smart and motivated altruist in capitalism, because capitalism's oppression is what this person will fight and capitalism is usually the better fighter.

Smart altruists do become evil to be successful because of this, think of how many left-leaning idealistic early silicon valley types and their ethos was entirely shed to become, functionally, the same as any MBA or Chicago school economist and now, not capitalism's critic, but its driver and the wielder of the hammer that crushes people like Swartz or Lessig. Let's remember Steve Jobs, who is beloved and seen bizarrely as a "hippie" threatened Blackberry with his questionable patent portfolio over email because of "poaching." Poaching in this context being people leave jobs for better ones, but Steve felt a feudal-like ownership of his workers and used the corrupt mechanisms of capitalism to control them and suppress wages.

I'm sure there are other examples, but 'hippie turned ruthless capitalist' is pretty much the story of the boomer generation, who quickly figured out that they can get defeated by the system on some level, or they themselves become the oppressors. They chose to become the oppressors. The same is true of millennial idealism when its thrown out the window when you have an IPO looming, Facebook being the most obvious millennial led company that is about as evil as you can be for a webpage and app.

The problem with right-leaning entrepreneurship spaces like HN is that there's no class consciousness and no real capitalism critiques. So Swatz was killed by the "government" not the capitalism that government serves. Or like this article says he was a depressed immature weirdo, so this was unavoidable. Neither of that is true. He became a valid threat to capitalism and the hammer fell on him. If not via this prosecutor (who enforces laws written by the oligarchy) then by something else (see Jobs using civil suits as a defacto government himself). He could have been sued for damages for all the PDFs he "stole," for example, if the wealthy couldn't wield the DOJ to their liking.

I can't think of any high profile idealists, IP critics, or capitalist critics in online spaces today. The system took down Lessig, Swatz, Doctorow, etc pretty easily. Swatz, of course is dead, but the others are now marginalized characters no one cares about and copyright and patent reform an entirely dead political horse. Instead the pendulum has shifted to an outright worship of billionaires, to the point of putting one in the presidency and filling the cabinet with them, on top of questionable Elon and Bezos worship, which seemingly gets stronger by the day.

No one seems to talk about this, but the late 90s and early 2000's financial and IP idealism was entirely crushed by the system. Today's smart altruists saw this and I imagine they are going to pick the Steve Jobs path, not the Swartz path going forward. They don't want to get destroyed either.

Source: someone who is older and witnessed all this in real time and is heartbroken over how everything turned out

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#65
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says the judge when you admit to what you did and plead. He’s the same one that gave Lori Laughlin and Mossimo 6 months in minimum security “camp” and not the bazillion years the prosecutor originally threatened.

Are you talking about the famous wealthy upper class and status people with your example? Not sure if you genuinely believe justice is blind. Something that has never been true.

> Are you talking about the famous wealthy upper class and status people with your example?

As opposed to a wealthy, well-connected Harvard research fellow and entrepreneur who stems from an upper class family?

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says they offered a 6 month jail time plea bargain though. It sounds like from his own writing that he was cognizant of the fact he broke the law, but didn’t agree the law should have been a law in the first place. It also sounds like he didn’t really expect there would be any consequences whatsoever. Look at this from the prosecutors point of view. They have hard evidence of a crime. They have evidence o…

The statement is made by the prosecutor though. They could be saying the truth. It is a very biased person’s word to go off though.

What statement? You mean they could have been lying about the plea deal?

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#67
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, possibly, Hacker News doesn't represent hacker culture, but finance-adjacent right-wing techbro culture, which knows perfectly well which side of the copyright issue its bread is buttered on. Spot on. I like HN for certain topics, but it’s by no means representative of the Hacker culture. Even the name seems like duplicitous marketing at best. As an example, the topic of immigration will bring out the nastiest…

"As an example, the topic of immigration will bring out the nastiest takes and opinions (and straight up racism)." Well, I would argue, that hackers can also be nasty racists. I mean sure, by my definition the hacker spirit is open minded by definition. But people with a open mind, are also open for some very weird to disgusting ideas.

Interesting, is the point here that hackers are susceptible to any idea that’s not mainstream?

However racism doesn’t fit that category does it? Racism is a mainstream idea and not a novel one.

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#68
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about the famous wealthy upper class and status people with your example? Not sure if you genuinely believe justice is blind. Something that has never been true.

Blind to what? He was guilty. White boys don’t do hard time for hiding in the closet to copy the library’s computer. The judge appears to be a conservative old navy man. I haven’t dealt with him, but I think I’ve been in front of the type. Trial would go something like this: On the morning of day 3, so before the second day of testimony, the judge calls the attorneys into chambers and lays into them, sometimes loud e…

Blind to what? You just stated “white boys”. So you agree justice isn’t blind. Then bringing up a rich, famous, American icon celebrity and how they were handled does not make sense.

Edit: as sibling post says. The rest of the comment is equivalent to fan fiction.

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#69
post #42

This article carefully avoids any analysis of the reasons why MIT chose to persecute Aaron Swartz. Here's a quick take on the actual situation, off the top of my head: "The Darker Side of MIT and the Academic Publishing Industry" While the Internet has been hailed from its inception as a tool that would open up access to information for the whole world, the reality has not matched that expectation. Much of the most i…

> it's at first glance hard to understand why MIT - one of America's leading federally-financed research institues - chose to persecute Aaron Swartz for downloading the jstor archive It didn't. Read the Abelson report (which has been discussed ad nauseam in past HN threads). MIT did not want Swartz prosecuted, and told the prosecutor that. The prosecutor chose to go after Swartz anyway. MIT's error was that they didn…

And if you look at that particular prosecutor's record, there is a clear pattern of "overkill".

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#70
post #50
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says who? He didn't get to have a trial to determine this because the prosecutor backed him into a corner with threats of excessive punishment.

Says the judge when you admit to what you did and plead. He’s the same one that gave Lori Laughlin and Mossimo 6 months in minimum security “camp” and not the bazillion years the prosecutor originally threatened.

> Says the judge when you admit to what you did and plead. He’s the same one that gave Lori Laughlin and Mossimo 6 months in minimum security “camp” and not the bazillion years the prosecutor originally threatened.

The prosecutor was trying to railroad Aaron for political gain and used every shenanigan in his bag of tricks to leverage Aaron into confessing -er- agreeing to a plea bargain. It was wrong, and very much revisionist to say otherwise.

Post reply on HN