I'm curious what this treatment would do to people who are "not depressed." What's the downside?
Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study
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Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Small sample size, but: - Building upon mounting evidence of TMS efficacy in patients with severe, intractable depression. - 79%-- 11 of the 14-- no longer meeting diagnostic criteria for depression after treatment, and another was improved. - It's an RCT showing both massive efficacy and statistical significance. (2 of 14 in placebo group entered remission). I know we like to chant "more n"-- but this is very likely…
Thank you for saying this. More n is required, yes, but small n results like this are a noteworthy step in the right direction. There is often good reason why n is small. Statistically significant results like this one pave the way to future experiments with larger n.
I had an occasion to deep dive into hundreds of clinical trials about a year ago, talk to PIs and trial participants, etc. One thing I didn't even have awareness of, let alone appreciation for, was how essential it is to have a good trial design (or maybe how an insufficiently considered trial design can be vulnerable to catastrophic failure modes).
It seems that running these 'small batch' studies/trials can be tremendously helpful to inform and refine the approach before executing on a larger scale. Of course if it takes 3 years to reach an endpoint it probably doesn't make sense to serialize them, but to my layman perspective there appears to be clear value (and in this case encouraging results).
Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study
#63"Soma", ladies & gentlemen
Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study
#64“I don’t procrastinate anymore,” he added. “I’m sleeping better. I completely quit alcohol. I’m walking my dog and playing the guitar again, for nothing more than the sheer joy of it.” Most importantly, he said, “I’m remaining positive and being respectful of others. These are big changes in my life.” Serious question: are these typical signs of depression? Now I'm wondering if I have depression.
I wouldn't rely on answers from HN. I don't have depression, but I do have anxiety, and professional help changed my life. It would not hurt to get an evaluation if you feel like something is off.
Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study
#65I've been dealing with depression for over 15 years. I can only hope that this becomes available to the masses.
If you haven't had results from medication, there are a couple of new drugs on the market now that are indicated for treatment resistant depression.
any examples i can look up?
Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study
#66I've been dealing with depression for over 15 years. I can only hope that this becomes available to the masses.
Note that this is an enhancement to an existing therapy. Depending on where you are in the world and the healthcare providers you have access to, the existing therapy called Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) may be an option.
Some TMS clinics are offering the SAINT protocol off-label. Not covered by insurance of course, supposedly runs around $6k.
Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study
#67weird how people can often become depressed due to actual real-world experiences like grief or loneliness, but slap a magnet on em and they can go into remission. Makes you wonder whether they'll go into remission for a while and then slip back into depression if the environmental factors are still there. I guess if it can knock you out of a depression where the trigger is no longer present but the trauma persists, t…
> environmental factors Actually being depressed can worsen environmental factors. Depression can make it hard (or impossible) to maintain work, relationships, hygiene, sleep, diet, and exercise. Losing the things can make the depression worse.
Yeah I know - it's a vicious cycle. I meant in cases where the depression trigger was an event like a death in the family, but where the person managed to keep it together despite their depression. In those fortunate cases, the only problem that needs solving is the person being "stuck" on a trauma - not a self perpetuating cycle.
Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study
#68“I don’t procrastinate anymore,” he added. “I’m sleeping better. I completely quit alcohol. I’m walking my dog and playing the guitar again, for nothing more than the sheer joy of it.” Most importantly, he said, “I’m remaining positive and being respectful of others. These are big changes in my life.” Serious question: are these typical signs of depression? Now I'm wondering if I have depression.
Procrastination isn't necessarily a sign, but if you're procrastinating on things you usually love (hobbies) then, yes. Talk to a professional.
Depression is surprisingly common. Most people kick it after a month or so of meds (the individual in the article clearly has chronic depression).
Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study
#69> “The treatment, known as Stanford accelerated intelligent neuromodulation therapy (SAINT) or simply Stanford neuromodulation therapy, is an intensive, individualized form of transcranial magnetic stimulation. In the study, remission typically occurred within days and lasted months. The only side effects were temporary fatigue and headaches.” > “Twenty-nine people with treatment-resistant depression participated in…
I wonder what results you'd get if you tried a treatment which was literal torture...? Eg. "We'll poke this red hot poker into you 10 times to cure your depression"... Many painful screams later... "So, is the depression any better now, or should we do more treatment?".. "Yes, yes, I'm pretty much cured!". How can we be sure that this 'torture effect' isn't whats being measured here? Especially when the treatment app…
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Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study
#70How can I duplicate this at home?