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A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

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Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#61

Post by dqv »

_8j50 wrote: post #42

Please HN, let email die. it is unsecurable (universal) in transit or storage (mta's) and because of its reliability and universal adoption a ton of security depends on it like a very rotten and rusted link in a chain even a small child can break. It is an almost 4 decade old tech where any security you find for it is purely opportunistic. I am very concerned how people here are stating how good, simple and reliable…

I don’t get it. I was waiting for you to say “in favor of…” but you never got to that part. Let email die in favor of what? What is the viable alternative?

Not a single messaging app I’ve used comes close to email. And I can’t use one messaging app, I have to have 6! I would be way more willing to move on from email if a solid viable alternative came along. XMPP, for example, is still too ephemeral and barely anyone uses it.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#62

Post by jamespwilliams »

cycomanic wrote: post #49
feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

I always discover how Estonia is really amazing for lots of technology things. AFAIK they are by quite a margin the most advanced country in Europe when in comes to egovernment services. Moreover my (admittedly outside) impression is that they often go for technologically sound solutions not the ones which some large lobby organisation pushed for. This is particularly remarkable considering how small the country is,…

It’s partially the result of the 2007 cyberattacks they endured. After that, they started taking cybersecurity very seriously.

https://www.bbc.com/news/39655415

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#63

Post by zaik »

Arathorn wrote: post #52

> As j. b. crawford notes, the prospect for another federated, Internet wide communication system seem very remote at this point in time, so email is it. I really don’t think this is true, and is defeatist at best. SIP and XMPP both had a good shot at creating a federated Internet-wide communication system, and we are doing our best to build one with Matrix or die trying.

What's wrong with XMPP except Google decided to shut their instance down?

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#64

Post by diegocg »

_8j50 wrote: post #42

Please HN, let email die. it is unsecurable (universal) in transit or storage (mta's) and because of its reliability and universal adoption a ton of security depends on it like a very rotten and rusted link in a chain even a small child can break. It is an almost 4 decade old tech where any security you find for it is purely opportunistic. I am very concerned how people here are stating how good, simple and reliable…

And your suggested replacement is...?

You seem to have missed the point of the article. Email is a necessity - there is no alternative.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#66

Post by teekert »

feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

In the Netherlands we do have an inbox from the government ("Berichteninbox" which is optional, the alternative is snailmail), it's coupled to the Digital ID system (DigiD), both are apps and webservices. You can use DigiD to access information on your pension, or healthcare insurance etc. The inbox can be (optionally) coupled to many government organizations and you receive information on taxes for example. I like the way it works, it works best if you have an Android or iOS system, but you can use it without (fully on the web).

Btw, a nice insight into email is also that it is one of the very few systems that decouples protocol from provider (Matrix and xmpp do that too, not widely adopted sadly) AND also has critical adoption (which Whatsapp also has in my country, sadly we are stuck with Meta there). We should never give up email because we will likely never get an open and free system like that back without some kind of government intervention. (Even though we all know email is a sub-optimal pile of hacks.)

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#67

Post by qybaz »

causi wrote: post #2

Email is our only reliable communication method between different organizations. I'm still of the opinion there should be public-option internet services. Everyone deserves an e-mail address that cannot be taken away from them without a court order.

In this day and age of censorship, I feel the same about web hosting. The American government should provide their citizens with a small space of hosting to share their thoughts.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#68

Post by zigman1 »

jamespwilliams wrote: post #62
cycomanic wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always discover how Estonia is really amazing for lots of technology things. AFAIK they are by quite a margin the most advanced country in Europe when in comes to egovernment services. Moreover my (admittedly outside) impression is that they often go for technologically sound solutions not the ones which some large lobby organisation pushed for. This is particularly remarkable considering how small the country is,…

It’s partially the result of the 2007 cyberattacks they endured. After that, they started taking cybersecurity very seriously. https://www.bbc.com/news/39655415

Their development of IT public infrastructure is a bit more complex. The first thing was the political situation in the 90's during the transition. As they wanted to go as far away from communism as possible, they sliced away all the political tradition and old politicians. A lot of young people got a chance in politics and public policy making. They somehow understood that investing in technology is the way to go. But the real starter was the Progertiger program, which brought computers to public schools. By 1999, almost all the schools were connected to the internet (about 98% of them and you have to understand that Estonia has a lot of countryside and forrests).

[0] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09523987.2020.17...

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#69

Post by aero-glide2 »

dqv wrote: post #61
_8j50 wrote: post #42

Please HN, let email die. it is unsecurable (universal) in transit or storage (mta's) and because of its reliability and universal adoption a ton of security depends on it like a very rotten and rusted link in a chain even a small child can break. It is an almost 4 decade old tech where any security you find for it is purely opportunistic. I am very concerned how people here are stating how good, simple and reliable…

I don’t get it. I was waiting for you to say “in favor of…” but you never got to that part. Let email die in favor of what? What is the viable alternative? Not a single messaging app I’ve used comes close to email. And I can’t use one messaging app, I have to have 6! I would be way more willing to move on from email if a solid viable alternative came along. XMPP, for example, is still too ephemeral and barely anyone…

I was suprised to learn WhatsApp uses XMPP. Would be nice if all popular chat applications are interoperable.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#70

Post by Vinnl »

teekert wrote: post #66
feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

In the Netherlands we do have an inbox from the government ("Berichteninbox" which is optional, the alternative is snailmail), it's coupled to the Digital ID system (DigiD), both are apps and webservices. You can use DigiD to access information on your pension, or healthcare insurance etc. The inbox can be (optionally) coupled to many government organizations and you receive information on taxes for example. I like t…

Importantly, though, that inbox is not an email inbox. This is what the process might look like (i.e. I've been through this):

1. You can an email in your regular email stating that there is a new message in your Berichteninbox. (No clickable link, presumably to avoid phishing.)

2. You go to mijn.overheid.nl to access your Berichteninbox. You sign in with DigID.

3. You open the mentioned message, which says a PDF with the actual letter is attached.

4. You open the PDF.

5. The PDF says you'll be able to file your tax returns a month from now.

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