E.O. Wilson has died • Hacker News Board

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#61

Post by inglor_cz » Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 6:30 PM UTC

humanistbot wrote: post #57

qntty wrote: post #54

"[The successful scientist] is sometimes driven, I will dare to suggest, by a passive-aggressive nature, and sometimes an anger against some part of society or problem in the world. There is also an introversion in the innovator that keeps him from team sports and social events. He dislikes authority, or at least being told what to do. He is not a leader in high school or college, nor is he likely to be pledged by so…

I know the man just died, but this is such a limited and damaging understanding of what science is and who can be a scientist. You don't need any of those traits to be a successful scientist. Science is a method. This is just feeding into the "jocks vs nerds" mentality.

Science has its methods, but I think that saying "science is a method" is too reductive.

Much like visual artists need to master the brush or the pencil, but this technical mastery isn't enough to produce lasting Art, the method itself does not produce good Science.

Maybe the long list given by Wilson is too long (there are definitely extroverted scientists out there), but at the very least, a good scientist needs to be curious.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#62

Post by 8note » Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 6:58 PM UTC

humanistbot wrote: post #57

qntty wrote: post #54

"[The successful scientist] is sometimes driven, I will dare to suggest, by a passive-aggressive nature, and sometimes an anger against some part of society or problem in the world. There is also an introversion in the innovator that keeps him from team sports and social events. He dislikes authority, or at least being told what to do. He is not a leader in high school or college, nor is he likely to be pledged by so…

I know the man just died, but this is such a limited and damaging understanding of what science is and who can be a scientist. You don't need any of those traits to be a successful scientist. Science is a method. This is just feeding into the "jocks vs nerds" mentality.

Hypothesis generation is key to good science, but is a creative process rather than a procedural one

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#63

Post by nine_k » Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

wombatmobile wrote: post #55

kabes wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mankind is one species with about 7 billion specimen. Insects an entire class with in the million species and 10 quintillion specimen. Not really a fair comparison. If all mammals would dissapear there'd also be chaos. Even just whale poop has a big impact.

And yet humans commonly think they are the most important thing on earth, placing themselves at the apex of some pyramid. E O Wilson gives us perspective by seeing the world not as a bauble in a real estate store, but as a canvas for all of biology.

Humans are most important beings on Earth for themselves, which I find perfectly natural.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#64

Post by the__alchemist » Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 7:28 PM UTC

dwt204 wrote: post #39

Evolutionary biologists are divided on his work. His own research and published works have been used by racists for example to readily explain the social origins of intelligence, poverty, crime, and violence regarding POC. He never actively fought against such tendencies, even though he was aware that he had become the darling of white nationalists, and even fascists globally. I believe that ALL "traits" can be expla…

No post body was provided.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#65

Post by LiquidSky » Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 7:39 PM UTC

api wrote: post #44

dexwell wrote: post #3

"The real problem of humanity is the following: we have paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions, and god-like technology" — E. O. Wilson, 2009

The cyberpunks were by far the most prophetic of all science fiction writers, and I feel like this kind of insight is what drove that. They put forward a future where they were optimistic about technology and neutral to pessimistic about human beings.

"High tech, low life" as Bruce Sterling put it.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#66

Post by sunstone » Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #40

dwt204 wrote: post #39

Evolutionary biologists are divided on his work. His own research and published works have been used by racists for example to readily explain the social origins of intelligence, poverty, crime, and violence regarding POC. He never actively fought against such tendencies, even though he was aware that he had become the darling of white nationalists, and even fascists globally. I believe that ALL "traits" can be expla…

While Wilson's extreme position on nature over nurture is certainly open to question, Gould is not a good source to be referencing (and the extreme position of nurture over nature you describe is at least as much open to question). Evolutionary biologists may be "divided" about Wilson, but they're pretty firmly negative about Gould's work in that field. See, for example, here: http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Debate/CEP_Gould.…

Not surprisingly Wilson's comment of "Great idea, wrong species." was about communism for which it was very apt (communism doesn't scale for humans), not socialism. Socialism works well in more than a few very successful countries around the world.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#67

Post by pdonis » Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

sunstone wrote: post #66

pdonis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Wilson's extreme position on nature over nurture is certainly open to question, Gould is not a good source to be referencing (and the extreme position of nurture over nature you describe is at least as much open to question). Evolutionary biologists may be "divided" about Wilson, but they're pretty firmly negative about Gould's work in that field. See, for example, here: http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Debate/CEP_Gould.…

Not surprisingly Wilson's comment of "Great idea, wrong species." was about communism for which it was very apt (communism doesn't scale for humans), not socialism. Socialism works well in more than a few very successful countries around the world.

> Not surprisingly Wilson's comment of "Great idea, wrong species." was about communism for which it was very apt (communism doesn't scale for humans), not socialism.

Wilson specifically used the term "socialism". The full quote is given here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson#The_Ants,_1990

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#68

Post by User23 » Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 8:28 PM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #49

VictorPath wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gould said that one faction of evolutionary biologists were mostly wasting their time, it's not a surprise that they would be firmly negative about that. The letter signers you posted say they are from the center for evolutionary psychology, departments of anthropology and psychology. This is the whole problem, they have one foot (if not both feet) outside of science and in social science.

> Gould said that one faction of evolutionary biologists were mostly wasting their time Yes, he said that, but he said it in the context of giving descriptions of what those evolutionary biologists were doing that were completely disconnected from reality. > The letter signers you posted Are an anthropologist and a psychologist, yes. But the criticisms of Gould that they describe are by no means limited to those fiel…

Gould himself provides good reason to believe his ideas are nonsense. He began with the result he wanted, and then unsurprisingly got it.

  My original reasons for writing The Mismeasure of Man mixed the personal with the professional. I confess, first of all, to strong feelings on this particular issue. I grew up in a family with a tradition of participation in campaigns for social justice, and I was active, as a student, in the civil rights movement at a time of great excitement and success in the early 1960s. (p. 36)

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#69

Post by zeruch » Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

humanistbot wrote: post #57

qntty wrote: post #54

"[The successful scientist] is sometimes driven, I will dare to suggest, by a passive-aggressive nature, and sometimes an anger against some part of society or problem in the world. There is also an introversion in the innovator that keeps him from team sports and social events. He dislikes authority, or at least being told what to do. He is not a leader in high school or college, nor is he likely to be pledged by so…

I know the man just died, but this is such a limited and damaging understanding of what science is and who can be a scientist. You don't need any of those traits to be a successful scientist. Science is a method. This is just feeding into the "jocks vs nerds" mentality.

...and the quote is likely because Wilson is of the era where those tropes were hardcoded into social status/cliques. Its an accurate perception of an era somewhat gone.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#70

Post by dang » Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 9:11 PM UTC

the__alchemist wrote: post #64

dwt204 wrote: post #39

Evolutionary biologists are divided on his work. His own research and published works have been used by racists for example to readily explain the social origins of intelligence, poverty, crime, and violence regarding POC. He never actively fought against such tendencies, even though he was aware that he had become the darling of white nationalists, and even fascists globally. I believe that ALL "traits" can be expla…

Quoted post unavailable.

Please don't post unsubstantive dismissals, no matter how wrong another comment is or you feel it is. Responding this way just leads to flamewars. We don't want those here because they dumb the forum down and then destroy it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html