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Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year

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Re: Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year

#61
post #11

Here's a good article to give context about this decision and why Germans - who were affected by Chernobyl, btw - support this. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/history-behind-ge...

This is an important point. People don't easily forget when they had to avoid fresh fruit, vegetables and meat for a year because it was radioactive.

And parents replacing the sand in their children's sandpits. There are parts of southern Germany where you are not supposed to collect mushrooms or hunt and eat game, because there is still enough residual nuclear contamination to be harmful to humans.

Proponents of nuclear energy like to pretend that it is almost completely safe. But if we look beyond the, admittedly relatively low, confirmed number of immediate casualties of nuclear accidents, there are serious long-term consequences that remain an issue for decades and more. And Chernobyl was still far from the worst case scenario as most of the fallout hit sparsely populated areas.

Re: Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year

#62
post #4

This is insane to me. Nuclear is the best long-term option for ecologically-friendly energy generation. This is absolutely a bad move, and the coal industry has done a great job of demonizing nuclear power.

We experienced fallout from Chernobyl (radiation levels of wild boar meat and some mushrooms are still under surveillance today) and we were designated nuclear ground zero in case that the Soviets tried to invade Europe. What attitude towards all things nuclear do you expect to arise from that?

Depends on how rational you are. Unfortunately, people are not very rational on average.

Re: Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year

#63

The sentiment on HN on this topic has traditionally been negative, and comments that support the move get downvoted. The fear of nuclear energy is deeply rooted in Germany and cannot be simply ignored. The "Anti AKW" (anti nuclear power) movement was huge since the 80s, it predates the fear of global warming, and it was at the core of what became the Green party. And Merkel, who has a doctorate quantum chemistry, cam…

> The fear of nuclear energy is deeply rooted in Germany and cannot be simply ignored.

It's not being ignored. We're all here complaining about how short sighted it is. What's their plan for renewables again? Aren't we in the middle of a low sunlight, low wind winter where nat. gas demand is through the roof? So Germany's plan is Nord Stream 2, buying from Russia trying to invade Ukraine?

Re: Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year

#64
post #31
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has never really used oil for producing electricity.

GP probably meant Russian gas. They are also going to become net buyers of coal electricity from neighboring countries as a result of this. It's not a good move for the environment.

Yup sorry! I realized after I submitted I meant gas. I’ll see if I can edit

Re: Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year

#65

The sentiment on HN on this topic has traditionally been negative, and comments that support the move get downvoted. The fear of nuclear energy is deeply rooted in Germany and cannot be simply ignored. The "Anti AKW" (anti nuclear power) movement was huge since the 80s, it predates the fear of global warming, and it was at the core of what became the Green party. And Merkel, who has a doctorate quantum chemistry, cam…

And here I thought the "rational German" stereotype had some justification.

Re: Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year

#66
post #4

This is insane to me. Nuclear is the best long-term option for ecologically-friendly energy generation. This is absolutely a bad move, and the coal industry has done a great job of demonizing nuclear power.

We experienced fallout from Chernobyl (radiation levels of wild boar meat and some mushrooms are still under surveillance today) and we were designated nuclear ground zero in case that the Soviets tried to invade Europe. What attitude towards all things nuclear do you expect to arise from that?

Being target for nuclear bombs isn't related to nuclear power in the slightest.

The fallout sucked, but even that was a minor hiccup compared to the destruction pollution is bringing with it...

Re: Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year

#67

Please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that nuclear doesn't ramp up/down very well either. Most nuclear plants use fission for the base load but gas or other fossil fuel generators for the variable part. Since in Germany green power in the form of solar/wind are even more variable, this makes Nuclear + Solar/Wind a bad combo. Wind and solar don't even make sense for Germany given their climate/geograp…

52% of Germany's energy production in 2021 was from renewables [1], which are productive now, don't need decades of planning and construction, have zero costs for waste and a perfectly clear risk profile for the next centuries. I don't see how wind and solar don't make sense. [1] https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2021/09/PE21_429_43312.html

> 52% of Germany's energy production in 2021 was from renewables

44% in 2021 according to the graph you linked and 52% in 2020.

Re: Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year

#68

https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/netherlands-goes... Holland is building two new reactors, and 'Energy and electricity prices are at record levels due to Europe’s over-reliance on renewables, inadequate supplies of nuclear energy, and shortages of oil and gas due to under-investment in oil and gas exploration and production. Carbon emissions in Germany rose 25% in the first half of 2020 due in large part t…

Not sure whether I agree with the "over-reliance on renewables"-bit. Renewables are a relatively small part of EU energy production. The vast majority is fossil fuel (which is mostly imported from the Middle East or Russia).

I can't speak for the rest of the EU, but energy policy in Belgium has been an absolute shitshow for decades now. No one wants to invest in anything. There's NIMBYism everywhere. No one wants any kind of energy production in sight, which is an impossibility in a country the size of paper towel. No one wants to reduce demand. And no one wants to rely on imports; which is ironic, given that we import uranium, oil, and gas ... ?

Re: Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year

#69
post #57

The sentiment on HN on this topic has traditionally been negative, and comments that support the move get downvoted. The fear of nuclear energy is deeply rooted in Germany and cannot be simply ignored. The "Anti AKW" (anti nuclear power) movement was huge since the 80s, it predates the fear of global warming, and it was at the core of what became the Green party. And Merkel, who has a doctorate quantum chemistry, cam…

Does "Green" have the same set of meanings in Germany as in the US? Gerhard Fritz Kurt Schröder . . . served as the chancellor of Germany from 1998 to 2005, during which his most important political initiative was Agenda 2010. As Chancellor, he led a coalition government of his Social Democratic Party of Germany and the Alliance 90/The Greens. . . . Schröder has been chairman of Russian energy company Rosneft since 2…

Schröder is a social democrat, not a green. His schmoozing with Russia is not characteristic of the German green party.

Re: Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of the year

#70
post #36

I am afraid this thread is going to be heavy on strongly held opinions and very light on facts and figures. In a futile attempt to compensate, here is the history of gross electricity production in Germany [1]. And here is the electricity import/export statistics [2]. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Energymi... [2] https://www.bmwi.de/Redaktion/DE/Infografiken/Energie/stroma...

One wonders how much better those charts would have looked with a rational investment into a climate-neutral, self-reliant form of electricity production, i.e. dozens of new nuclear reactors.

I think the merit of this idea will become clear among the public when the price of electricity becomes an election issue.

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