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Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

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Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#61

Post by AussieWog93 »

IanCal wrote: post #34
thaumasiotes wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nursing will do that job automatically.

It certainly helps a lot if you're breastfeeding exclusively but it isn't as reliable as many would want.

A quick Google suggests that exclusive breastfeeding on cue has a 98% effectiveness (typical use) at preventing pregnancy. The pill has only a 92% chance (again, typical use; if used correctly 100% of the time it is near-perfect).

Partial breastfeeding (supplemented with formula) is much less effective, though!

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#62

Post by AussieWog93 »

rectang wrote: post #40
pandemicsoul wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably besides the point, but you have an extremely skewed idea of what prompts a visit from Child Protective Services in the United States.

https://wehavekids.com/parenting/InsideCPS#what-about-ridicu... > It does not matter how ridiculous or false a claim may be. When an investigator receives the referral, they are legally obligated to investigate. It only takes a judgmental busybody to get a visit from CPS. Then you better pray CPS doesn't find fault with you. And it helps if you're white: https://www.parents.com/news/cps-has-a-systemic-racism-probl...

Neither of those articles contained a shred of evidence to suggest that CPS will take your kids away from you on a whim.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#63

Post by PebblesRox »

geoduck14 wrote: post #42
songzme wrote: post #30

My baby is due in 4 weeks. My wife and I shopped for weeks trying to buy a 2nd hand crib that was affordable (We ended up getting one for free from a neighbor on nextdoor). Never did it cross my mind that I could just use a cardboard box! I will definitely make a cardboard box for my upcoming baby, use it as much as I can, and see if I could get by without a crib! Perfect DIY project for a stay home dad, cribs always…

I have several kids. Let me share some experiences with you: A card board box is probably fine starting out, but your baby will out grow it. The sleeping container should have walls high enough to prevent him/her from climbing out - this might take 9 months, but younwill want it You NEED to remove all fluf and excess padding in your DIY "crib". Babies can suffocate on cute "fluffy" blankets If you build a wooden crib…

The recommendation for crib slats is narrow enough so that the body can't get through, not just the head (so they can't wiggle out feet first and then get their heads stuck).

https://www.cpsc.gov/safety-education/safety-guides/cribs/cr...

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#64

Post by PebblesRox »

songzme wrote: post #30

My baby is due in 4 weeks. My wife and I shopped for weeks trying to buy a 2nd hand crib that was affordable (We ended up getting one for free from a neighbor on nextdoor). Never did it cross my mind that I could just use a cardboard box! I will definitely make a cardboard box for my upcoming baby, use it as much as I can, and see if I could get by without a crib! Perfect DIY project for a stay home dad, cribs always…

For the early months (or longer if you child proof the entire room), you can do just the crib mattress directly on the floor. This is also an easy way to set up a secondary nap spot somewhere else in the house (since it's safer for small infants to sleep in the same room as an adult vs. by themselves).

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#65

Post by AussieWog93 »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #17
n4bz0r wrote: post #8

From the list of the box contents: > Condoms Given you've received the box, isn't it a bit too late for that?

Women can be very fertile right after birth, although most don’t get their periods for months while breastfeeding. We got like 100 condoms after birth, which would mean years of sex given the stress and discomfort after birth.

>We got like 100 condoms after birth, which would mean years of sex given the stress and discomfort after birth.

Are you speaking from experience or is this just your expectation? My wife and I were back to normal pretty much as soon as everything healed up (4-6 weeks or so)

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#66

Post by PebblesRox »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #33
pandemicsoul wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, they've been doing this for decades. Don't you think their dataset is probably more informed than your speculation?

Well, those 2 criticisms are true. You can test that out yourself. What’s missing is that lots of things in your home are bad in water and are flammable. But how often do you need to save a baby from an evil villain by tossing their little box into a river and hope a nice childless couple who always wanted a child finds them and raises them as their own? Situations where the material is a liability are few and far be…

>how often do you need to save a baby from an evil villain by tossing their little box into a river

Maybe this fear explains the popularity of the Moses basket

https://www.google.com/search?q=moses+basket&client=ms-andro...

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#67

Post by t0mas88 »

Swizec wrote: post #35
songzme wrote: post #30

My baby is due in 4 weeks. My wife and I shopped for weeks trying to buy a 2nd hand crib that was affordable (We ended up getting one for free from a neighbor on nextdoor). Never did it cross my mind that I could just use a cardboard box! I will definitely make a cardboard box for my upcoming baby, use it as much as I can, and see if I could get by without a crib! Perfect DIY project for a stay home dad, cribs always…

As a non parent surrounded by friends having kids I often wonder how much money and faff is wasted on things kids won’t even remember.

Many things you buy for a baby are more to make your own life easier. Doesn't really matter that the baby remembers nothing about it.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#68

Post by t0mas88 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #22
darrylb42 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Condoms will hopefully prevent a second box arriving too soon.

Nursing will do that job automatically.

This claim is made often enough that child birth care in the Netherlands specifically informs all new parents that breastfeeding is not a good contraceptive. It may work for some, but it's not a guarantee at all.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#69

Post by rectang »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #62
rectang wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://wehavekids.com/parenting/InsideCPS#what-about-ridicu... > It does not matter how ridiculous or false a claim may be. When an investigator receives the referral, they are legally obligated to investigate. It only takes a judgmental busybody to get a visit from CPS. Then you better pray CPS doesn't find fault with you. And it helps if you're white: https://www.parents.com/news/cps-has-a-systemic-racism-probl...

Neither of those articles contained a shred of evidence to suggest that CPS will take your kids away from you on a whim.

Well, you just moved the goalposts from "what prompts a visit", past "what gets your kids taken away", all the way to "what gets your kids taken away on a whim".

I agree that CPS is extraordinarily unlikely to take your kids away "on a whim". And yet, that doesn't mean that innocent folks have nothing to fear from a CPS visit.

The first article clearly shows that CPS will visit for any report at all, no matter how bogus or bizarre. There are controls in place to thwart repeated harassment, but for a first report, they will definitely investigate because they are legally obligated to do so.

And since the original issue was whether you might get a visit for putting your kid in a cardboard box, the answer is plainly "yes".

The follow-on question is whether that visit, investigating a stupid, bogus report, might get your kids taken away. That is going to depend on the judgment of the CPS investigator. And the second article illustrates that those judgements are not always going to be evenhanded.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#70

Post by masklinn »

axegon_ wrote: post #2

Come to think of it, this is great thinking. Sure, it's mostly symbolic but the message itself is beautiful: Finland is a wealthy nation and even in wealthy nations people don't get equal start: surely you'd have better options when your dad is an F1 world champion than the local plumber, but even so, this serves as a nice reminder. Sort of reminds me of a short story written about a century ago(and only one English…

> Sure, it's mostly symbolic

Is it? The maternity box is worth a lot, and that the box itself doubles up as a crib (by design) seems like a huge convenience.

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