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Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

pnas.org

61–70 of 316 posts

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#61
post #8

Fascinating paper. And nice job with the model! > Strictly limiting exposure to dissimilar views, however, is an effective mechanism for avoiding rapid polarization (Figs. 4 and 5). This may, at first, appear contrary to practical experience: Encouraging interactions among those with different views might be expected to decrease polarization by fostering increased tolerance. Lots of interesting points in there.

> Strictly limiting exposure to dissimilar views, however, is... ...not an effective mechanism for social media and news sites to make a profit, unfortunately.

They were known to create bubbles and echo chambers. And make huge profits from it. How did this change recently?

Not supporting any side, just wondering about the reasoning

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has been the case since the industrial revolution, though. My theory is that political affiliation has taken the place of religion. Particularly on the left, but you can see a lot of it happening on the right now too since Christianity has declined in influence in the Republican party.

As a leftie, but who can't relate to the many demands they now have (e.g. cancel culture), did Christianity influence the GOP? Or is it more the GOP saying "We are Christians" and what "Christianity" means to them is whatever they say it is?

I think it used to be the former, and is now more like the latter. And I think that as Christianity, independent of the GOP, continues to be less of a political force, you will see a brand of Republican religion without reference to Christianity. I think the beginnings of this can be seen in the purging of Liz Cheney, who, until very recently, was a canonical Republican. Now it is basically heretical in the Republican party to go against Trump. Also Trump is the first Republican presidential candidate that I can remember who didn't make a show out of his Christian faith, and didn't seem to be hurt by it.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has been the case since the industrial revolution, though. My theory is that political affiliation has taken the place of religion. Particularly on the left, but you can see a lot of it happening on the right now too since Christianity has declined in influence in the Republican party.

Spot on. At the end of the day it's a lot less harmful to worship an invisible being than an idealised visible entity

I think you may be on to something here. But I think that in terms of US politics, the stabilizing factor was that, until recently, both parties shared the same religion. Even up to the 90's, being Christian was very much a requirement for Democratic presidential candidates.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#64
post #60

Polarization in America: One side invaded the capital building in a violent attempt to overthrow democracy, and the other side wants to make voting for whoever you want as easy as possible. Guess which pole I’m at and tell me how I should meet the other pole in the middle.

That's how bad the situation is... To be fair, though, the left also has been associated with violent and anti-democratic behaviors.

“To be fair” nothing approaching the same ballpark has been committed by the left and the any “violent and anti democratic behaviors” you can give examples of have not been championed by the left establishment.

One side wants to seize power for all time, and the other side wants democracy. If anyone on the left isn’t polarized by that fact then they aren’t paying attention.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not dismissing your point, but you may be hitting at words that have ambiguity when translated. I am not a german speaker but would it be grammatically correct to say "Ich bin CDUer"? From my elementary school german it does not feel right. On the other hand you can perfectly say "Ich bin christdemokrat" and here you are back to the American case with political support equaling identity. An equivalently polarized cou…

I dont think anyone would ever say „Ich bin christemokrat“, a much more common saying (at least in the area where I live or the area I grew up) would be „Ich bin CDU-Wähler“/I am a CDU-Voter. This is coincidentally how my parents would describe their political leanings (SPD).

Certainly some people do say "Ich bin Christdemokrat", but that would usually be active party members, not just voters.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#66

Polarization in America: One side invaded the capital building in a violent attempt to overthrow democracy, and the other side wants to make voting for whoever you want as easy as possible. Guess which pole I’m at and tell me how I should meet the other pole in the middle.

> One side invaded the capital building in a violent attempt to overthrow democracy

Okay so lumping together half the country in with a few extremists would probably be the first step to answering your question. Yes there were probably plenty of people at home cheering them on but if you really believe it was half the country then you need to get outside your bubble.

> the other side wants to make voting for whoever you want as easy as possible

I have a tough time believing this at least from a party perspective. Sure, the democratic party loves to say this, and they even manage to back it up with their actions sometimes when it's convenient for them, but they still only want you voting for their party approved puppets. If that weren't the case then I simply don't see how it is defensible for democrats to not have enacted a better voting system yet in places where they have clear majorities (eg California would be near the top of that list, and yet here we are stuck with a democratic governor who vetoed the legislation which would have allowed general law cities to use alternative voting systems). Note that I find it entirely likely that plenty of democratic voters would like to fix our voting, I'm specifically talking about the party leadership here, although on that note there are also plenty of republicans who would like to fix our voting, so that's another step you could take to meet them in the middle.

First past the post voting is probably the biggest thing preventing people from "voting for whoever they want", but democrats have done very little for that even though it is blindingly obvious how terrible of a system it is. Well, I can see why the democrats (and republicans) would like it, because that's a large part of how they stay in power, but from a "voting for whoever you want" perspective it's just about as bad as it gets and the democrats just don't seem to care about it.

Now that it's becoming clear that more voters care about this reform, many places are turning to RCV/IRV as the solution when there are much better methods out there. It's hard to tell if it's just being ignorant about the problems with IRV (eg doesn't elect condorcet winner, ignores lots of ballot preferences, non-monotonic, etc) or if they are intentionally aiming for a method which appeases the voters while also being one that will help keep them in power. Approval and STAR are significantly better and are gaining momentum in the US and any condorcet method would also be reasonable, but so far support for these other options is pretty grassroots and I'm unaware of any big name republians or democrats actually talking about those other methods.

Fixing the voting would also help people like you distinguish just how much support eg Trump has compared to others. There was a lot of vote splitting happening in the Republican primaries which Trump benefited from and with a proper method I believe it's entirely possible he wouldn't have even been nominated in the first place. There are plenty of Republicans who did not like him but didn't feel they had an alternative in the general election because of how distasteful they found Clinton/Biden to be.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#67
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in Europe multiple parties represented in parliament are the norm; Not in the UK. There are multiple parties, but one party is the party of government, and another is the Official Opposition. Third parties are just third parties. This is the same in the USA, I believe.

Yes, but it is the norm . As far as I can tell, the UK, France and Belarus are the only countries in Europe without some form of proportional representation in elections for parliament. France tends to have a more fragmented result partly because of a tradition for a lot of electoral alliances etc. between the main parties to counter the effects of the electoral system and partly because it doesn't use First Past the…

UK uses PR for the Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland elections, but not the national UK wide ones.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#68

It's an interesting paper, but unfortunately it misses the point. Polar dissimilar political beliefs are not the problem. Many countries have this, and even have lively political discussions that remain civil, rallies that remain civil, and elections that remain civil. The actual problem is psychological, specifically dealing with identity beliefs. Once a person takes on a belief as part of their identity, any attack…

That still does not explain why such identity beliefs appear to be spreading. My own hypothesis is that most things are now too complex for most people, i.e., how things work is largely "magic". This then might allow people to actually belief a lot more things as a lot of how the real world works is already untethered from reality for them.

As someone from outside the US, the US seems to have a particularly bad case of identity beliefs. Will you test your hypothesis against other developed nations and see how much of it is explained by the current trajectory of US's national culture and politics and how much is explained by fundamental environmental complexity?

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#69

Polarization in America: One side invaded the capital building in a violent attempt to overthrow democracy, and the other side wants to make voting for whoever you want as easy as possible. Guess which pole I’m at and tell me how I should meet the other pole in the middle.

[deleted]

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#70

Polarization in America: One side invaded the capital building in a violent attempt to overthrow democracy, and the other side wants to make voting for whoever you want as easy as possible. Guess which pole I’m at and tell me how I should meet the other pole in the middle.

> One side invaded the capital building in a violent attempt to overthrow democracy Okay so lumping together half the country in with a few extremists would probably be the first step to answering your question. Yes there were probably plenty of people at home cheering them on but if you really believe it was half the country then you need to get outside your bubble. > the other side wants to make voting for whoever…

60% of Republicans believe that Biden did not win the election.

If you believe the presidency has been stolen by a conspiracy then violence is the only recourse remaining.

This is not a handful of extremists. This is the predominant view.

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