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Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

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Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#61

Post by laydn »

smackay wrote: post #10

Craig Murray, friend of Julian Assange, was just released from a Scottish prison for the crime of jigsaw identification of some of the accusers in the trial of former First Minister, Alex Salmond despite the fact that many journalists from mainstream media had published information that allowed their readers to identify some of the accusers explicitly. So it's not just a problem of dictatorships in second or third wo…

Well a journalist -a US citizen- (Jamal Khashoggi) was killed in a foreign (Saudi) embassy; evidence (including, Audio evidence) was presented of the killing and was found to be credible, CIA concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing.... then.... what happened? Nothing.

In a world where you can kill a US journalist so brazenly without any repercussions, would you be surprised journalists being jailed for $reasons ?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#62

Post by pjc50 »

koheripbal wrote: post #50
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very intentional. Attacking specific journalists and broadly claiming that the entire space is corrupt and manipulated is what increases the tolerance for things like this.

There's also an issue with defining "journalist". Some people being described as "journalists" are really activists who are actively taking part in the movement that's being targeted by the government. It doesn't excuse imprisoning them, but it muddies the water when it comes to defending them, and bloats the numbers in a way that make the problem more easy to dismiss. On the other hand - certifying journalists is a…

The hard distinction between "journalist" and "activist" collapses if you look at, say, the UK government, where plenty of people have either been both or are married to a journalist.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#63

Post by pjc50 »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #41
smackay wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is that there is no separation of powers between the government and the judiciary as you might find in most (all?) modern democracies. The Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (COPFS) acts as the governments lawyers and the prosecution service. Most of the accusers in the trial of Alex Salmond, for which he was acquitted on all charges, are close associates of the leadership of the Scott…

I'm a bit confused by this statement about separation of powers. The function of a prosecutor is not a judicial function in the context of an adversarial legal system such as the common law.

Moreover, how is this really different from the CPS in the rest of the UK?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#64

Post by pjc50 »

koheripbal wrote: post #48
smackay wrote: post #10

Craig Murray, friend of Julian Assange, was just released from a Scottish prison for the crime of jigsaw identification of some of the accusers in the trial of former First Minister, Alex Salmond despite the fact that many journalists from mainstream media had published information that allowed their readers to identify some of the accusers explicitly. So it's not just a problem of dictatorships in second or third wo…

Wait, it's doxxing a witness a bad thing? This seems like a legitimate crime.

Accusers, who in Scotland are afforded legal protection from being named in the press in cases of sexual assault.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#65

Post by tc313 »

laydn wrote: post #61
smackay wrote: post #10

Craig Murray, friend of Julian Assange, was just released from a Scottish prison for the crime of jigsaw identification of some of the accusers in the trial of former First Minister, Alex Salmond despite the fact that many journalists from mainstream media had published information that allowed their readers to identify some of the accusers explicitly. So it's not just a problem of dictatorships in second or third wo…

Well a journalist -a US citizen- (Jamal Khashoggi) was killed in a foreign (Saudi) embassy; evidence (including, Audio evidence) was presented of the killing and was found to be credible, CIA concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing.... then.... what happened? Nothing. In a world where you can kill a US journalist so brazenly without any repercussions, would you be surprised journalis…

Not to notpick, but while Khashoggi was a US resident, he was not a US citizen.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#66

Post by teh_klev »

ajb wrote: post #27
pydry wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's crazy about his case is that he was sentenced to more time than somebody who just outright named an accuser on twitter. Leonna Dorrian should be disbarred. What she did was a blatant abuse of her power.

Yeah that judgement was crazy. It has been spun as being about protecting the identity of victims of sexual offences, but I don't believe that for a moment because the judgement contained a detailed account of how you could find the accusers from Murray's articles . So I personally had no idea who they were when I read his article originally, but it was easy to figure out from the judgement. If what they cared about…

Not only this. Before the criminal trial there were no restrictions on reporting the identity of the accusers. Murray had even pointed this out in his affidavit to the court that he had chosen not to though it would have been quite legitimate to do so at that time.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#67

Post by BurningFrog »

teh_klev wrote: post #60
chrisseaton wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usual problem - how do you define a journalist and how do you say whether they've been jailed for being a journalist or not.

This is the CPJ definition: "CPJ defines journalists as people who cover the news or comment on public affairs in any media, including print, photographs, radio, television, and online." I'd say that both Murray and Assange legitimately fit into this definition. Unfortunately in the UK you're only considered a "journalist" if you can join the cosy boys club that is the NUJ, which is a bit like saying you're not a rea…

Don't we all comment on public affairs online?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#68

Post by finiteseries »

laydn wrote: post #61
smackay wrote: post #10

Craig Murray, friend of Julian Assange, was just released from a Scottish prison for the crime of jigsaw identification of some of the accusers in the trial of former First Minister, Alex Salmond despite the fact that many journalists from mainstream media had published information that allowed their readers to identify some of the accusers explicitly. So it's not just a problem of dictatorships in second or third wo…

Well a journalist -a US citizen- (Jamal Khashoggi) was killed in a foreign (Saudi) embassy; evidence (including, Audio evidence) was presented of the killing and was found to be credible, CIA concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing.... then.... what happened? Nothing. In a world where you can kill a US journalist so brazenly without any repercussions, would you be surprised journalis…

A “US journalist” whose grandfather was the personal physician to the house of Saudi’s founder, whose billionaire arms dealing uncle was involved in Iran Contra, whose first cousin was in that car with Princess Diana…

He was hilariously Saudi!

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#70

Post by boringg »

BurningFrog wrote: post #67
teh_klev wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the CPJ definition: "CPJ defines journalists as people who cover the news or comment on public affairs in any media, including print, photographs, radio, television, and online." I'd say that both Murray and Assange legitimately fit into this definition. Unfortunately in the UK you're only considered a "journalist" if you can join the cosy boys club that is the NUJ, which is a bit like saying you're not a rea…

Don't we all comment on public affairs online?

Yeah this is the crux of the problem. As the definition of journalist becomes so broad that everyone falls into this category so to does the number of journalists going to prison.

The counter is that if there is too strict a definition of journalism - you put to many controls on the group. It almost feels like you should need some kind of standard to qualify as a journalist (again that has issues with it as well).

It's fraught either way but I don't think I am alone here when I say a lot of journalists around the world don't really qualify as journalists and are actually activists under guise (both on the right and on the left).

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