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Common Jobs in a Medieval City

medievalists.net

61–70 of 193 posts

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent quote may be in reference to David Graeber's commentary on "bullshit jobs".

I figured as much. But I don't agree with the premise of the book. Sure, we all "know" the jobs are bullshit, and yet they aren't. Let's go over the wikipedia summary at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs >flunkies, who serve to make their superiors feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants, makers of websites whose sites neglect ease of use and speed for looks; They ser…

> providing value

That's the crux, isn't it? What kind of "value" are we talking about? The argument doesn't hold unless we start defining this in concrete terms. That's where you'll find that there are many different ways to attribute value. Inevitably, value attributing is inherently human and therefor subjective. "value", such as it is, is a social construct.

Sure, many of the "bullshit jobs" "provide value to employers", but that doesn't invalidate the argument to grant them the moniker "bullshit job".

So, what makes a job a "bullshit job"? Well, the defining criteria would be that they only exist to the benefit of their employer. They don't generate any value as far as the stakeholders of an employer is concerned: clients, customers, members, patrons, patients, visitors, other employees, etc.

Dedicating staff to calm passengers whose bags do not arrive is a clear cost/benefit trade-off as far as the airline is concerned. Clearly, it's cheaper / easier to have staff comfort passengers, then fix the issue in a structural fashion. The example of a "bullshit job" is apt, because the customers of the airline can clearly push through the illusion that the airline would actually care about their luggage.

Context matters as far as public perception is concerned, though. Things are not always that clear cut.

For instance, corporations aren't necessarily "evil" or "good" in binary terms. Their impact on the world tends to be judged in a morally ambivalent fashion. A corporate lawyer may defend not just their employer, but also squarely aligns their convictions / principles with the ambiguous impact their employer may or may not have on the world, for better or worse. Arguably, the tobacco industry has enabled the social mobility of millions of people, and at the same time, their product has caused the death of millions as well. Depending on what moral stance you'd take, it's valid to perceive a corporate lawyer both as a "goon" defending a reprehensible view on the world, as well as a honest employee defending the livelihoods of many. (note: I'm not taking sides here, it's just an example!)

In a complex and ambiguous world, "bullshit jobs" are labelled as such because they are perceived as such through the lens of current morals, values, socio-economic, political, cultural zeitgeist. A corporate lawyer is seen as a "bullshit job" because society accepts the ambivalence in what they do, and why their role is a thing, even though it's role most people feel the world wouldn't have to need in the first place.

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#62
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many barbers also did some dentistry.

I always want a shave and a blood letting after getting some rotten teeth pulled. It was a very convenient trade.

I'm guessing the medieval toothpulling would count as a good bloodletting as well.

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#63
post #54

I'm surprised blacksmiths didn't cut to the top 10. Almost everyone would need some kind of metal tool(s) to do their job in medieval time.

Blacksmith wasn't a major job until the 1800s when industrial revolution made the job possible. In the 1800s a blacksmith should made nothing: everything was made in a factory and the blacksmith just did the final fitting or repair work. Sure they could and did do some custom decorative stuff, but only the rich could afford that. Before then a city might have a couple in employee of the noble to make armor or swords,…

Sure there were self-learners that expanded their trade to supply others for coin. However blacksmithing was certainly a skilled artisan / tradesperson role from antiquity to medieval times that operated on an apprenticeship scheme. One often had to dedicate themselves to it exclusively.

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#64
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem a bit strange, you're right. When you read into it though, this city seemed to have a higher cobbler population than most, as alluded to by the author. > They were organized in different guilds, based on the street in which they kept their shops. In 1360, nine cobblers’ guilds were attested in documents, all situated within the city’s walls I know almost nothing about medieval France, but perhaps peasant…

There's always an overlap of skills. Cobblers may have been tailoring on the side but wouldn't be counted as such. I've been to many dry cleaners that will do alterations or repairs on clothes but also will do some light shoe repair as well. They won't make you a shoe but can fix a broken heel just like I'm sure there are cobblers out there who are capable of clothing repairs.

Cobblers are very good for doing repairs of anything that requires heavier duty needles and threads.

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#65
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always want a shave and a blood letting after getting some rotten teeth pulled. It was a very convenient trade.

I'm guessing the medieval toothpulling would count as a good bloodletting as well.

It depended if you were a bleeder or not. My barber gave me some salted fish to pack in there, so it really didn't bleed all that much.

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely a blacksmith in almost every city, but probably fewer blacksmiths per city than the other jobs. Metal tools are built to last, and are expensive, so it was probably often a low volume high cost kind of business where production could be covered by a minimal number of smiths.

My Dad was born before WW2 in a village in Eastern Europe, which was probably closer to a medieval village than to a 21st century one. He told me that a blacksmith would ask for 3 plum trees to do a certain job, presumably in order to make charcoal. I don't think there was anything special about plum trees, other than the local availability: people were (and still are) growing plum trees in order to make spirits. Giv…

Of extraordinary interest is the fact that the blacksmith made his own charcoal and presumably other consumables and tools. From whence his anvil?

Would you mind sharing some more details, such as where was the village? This is exactly the type of history story that I enjoy telling my children.

If you'd prefer to share privately, my Gmail username is the same as my HN username. Thank you!

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#67
post #54

I'm surprised blacksmiths didn't cut to the top 10. Almost everyone would need some kind of metal tool(s) to do their job in medieval time.

Blacksmith wasn't a major job until the 1800s when industrial revolution made the job possible. In the 1800s a blacksmith should made nothing: everything was made in a factory and the blacksmith just did the final fitting or repair work. Sure they could and did do some custom decorative stuff, but only the rich could afford that. Before then a city might have a couple in employee of the noble to make armor or swords,…

So who shoe-d the horses then, was it the farmers?

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#68

Striking that there were more shoemakers than tailors.

In tracing my family tree, I found a branch that went back to a small town in Scotland, and at least 3-4 generations back were shoemakers. When did my forefather leave the family trade? Circa 1850, when the Industrial Revolution apparently hit shoemaking hard. He ended up keeper of a coffee shop in Glasgow, and his daughter was on a ship to Australia in 1891.

  > on a ship to Australia in 1891
What was she accused of? ))

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amused and perplexed at your choice of the word "cobble" there

I’m not a native speaker so this was entirely unintentional, but now that you point it out I see the pun. Thank you.

I've never met a non-native speaker who used the word "cobble", and successfully too. Props to you!

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#70

I'm surprised blacksmiths didn't cut to the top 10. Almost everyone would need some kind of metal tool(s) to do their job in medieval time.

Definitely a blacksmith in almost every city, but probably fewer blacksmiths per city than the other jobs. Metal tools are built to last, and are expensive, so it was probably often a low volume high cost kind of business where production could be covered by a minimal number of smiths.

They must have been quite prolific then. There's a reason Smith is the most common surname in the English speaking world.
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