They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started • Hacker News Board

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#61

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:00 AM UTC

jordanpg wrote: post #16

Putting aside any special reverence we might have for the dead, I guess the abstract question is: is there any social value to publicly shaming those who uncritically call into question settled scientific claims, putting others at risk? I would say there is some value. Our society will not survive if it is socially acceptable to do this. COVID is exhibit A. Climate science is exhibit B. Settled scientific matters, li…

The usefulness isn't settled at all. We don't even know how long it protects. It pretty much doesn't severely help people under the age of 50 by mortality rate.

We know it does not protect against transmission or infection. It probably only reduces the severity of the disease. But that data is anything other than settled.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#62

Post by krageon » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:59 AM UTC

Reuzel wrote: post #42

eertami wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always suspicious about who is actually making these posts. Surely it is obvious to them that nobody would ever fall for it or treat it in good faith. The only conclusion that seems to make any sense is that the authors are being paid to write these comments.

> Surely it is obvious to them that nobody would ever fall for it or treat it in good faith. This says a lot about you, and makes me suspicious about your posts. You either assume that someone with a different view is lying, that they don't even believe in their own views, because these are obviously wrong. Or you are unable to treat posts in good faith, suspecting a commercial incentive. So, you can not contribute a…

> Your suspicion should make you conclude that you have nothing of value to contribute

It is quite rude to tell someone that they have absolutely nothing to add just because they confess they have trouble seeing a benign motivation behind your post.

Clearly they have something to contribute: a viewpoint that is their own, that they are willing to talk about without undue animosity.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#63

Post by happytoexplain » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

Reuzel wrote: post #34

krageon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are the Marxist troll here I pointed out ways in which your post could be misconstrued by your audience, and from this you have extrapolated some surprising and far-reaching facts about my political views. You are wrong, so much so I must admit it made me laugh.

You are not my audience. I consider you a lost cause after you calling me a neonazi troll. It is time the general public sees this evil inhumane activism without being obscured by anti-racism or anti-fascism. When the general public sees you equating trolling a memorial page (a digital mourning service) as: > anything remotely incriminating And others write about "maybe public shaming helps" to stop the spread of fak…

The parent may not have been your subject, but they are your audience, as anybody reading this is. Their original reply made a thoughtful point, and did not label you, personally, a Neo-Nazi. I think you're projecting a hated image of a composite political enemy onto individuals to rationalize a bitterness.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#64

Post by RankingMember » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #56

peteradio wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At best some small fraction of a life has been saved.

there's no way to measure the number of people who have been further entrenched by YET ANOTHER PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT where the tribal actions of those belonging are geared towards social climbing within the cloister as opposed to outreach to those who don't already agree with them. Increasingly, the modern left seems hellbent on demeaning "those people" on any number of topics, from culture war, environmentalism, COVI…

There is a deep partisan divide at this time in our country. Are there really that many people in the middle, the undecided voter, who were going to vote for Trump but changed their mind and voted for Biden because people online were nice to them? I have a hard time imagining this.

I agree that the level of discourse is at an all time low, but I disagree with a lot of what you're saying because it paints with a super broad brush and also treats base insults and sneering as though they're the sole domain of the "modern left". It is a mistake to confuse the loudmouths on Twitter (where I presume you're seeing the majority of the chest puffing and punching down) with the actual humans behind the movements you mention.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#65

Post by dang » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:07 AM UTC

Reuzel wrote: post #2

Good to highlight this. I became aware of the evils of the "alt-right" when they started trolling suicide memorial pages. This is a similar attack coming from the polar side of the political spectrum. You cannot claim the moral high-ground after this. If the pro-vaccine left does not distance itself from this ugly evil within their midsts, it should go a similar route as the alt-right did, in the eyes of the public:…

Please don't take HN threads into ideological flamewar. It's exactly the opposite of what we're trying for here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#66

Post by dang » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:08 AM UTC

krageon wrote: post #8

Reuzel wrote: post #2

Good to highlight this. I became aware of the evils of the "alt-right" when they started trolling suicide memorial pages. This is a similar attack coming from the polar side of the political spectrum. You cannot claim the moral high-ground after this. If the pro-vaccine left does not distance itself from this ugly evil within their midsts, it should go a similar route as the alt-right did, in the eyes of the public:…

This exact rhetoric is something you often hear whenever any sort of left leaning person does anything remotely incriminating. It's really hard to separate the reasonable criticism from the neonazi trolling, which usually leaves one to search for embedded dog whistles. Of which this post has a few. I will leave it up to you if that is something you wish to address.

Please don't take HN threads further into ideological flamewar. It's exactly the opposite of what we're trying for here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#67

Post by dang » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

Reuzel wrote: post #12

krageon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This exact rhetoric is something you often hear whenever any sort of left leaning person does anything remotely incriminating. It's really hard to separate the reasonable criticism from the neonazi trolling, which usually leaves one to search for embedded dog whistles. Of which this post has a few. I will leave it up to you if that is something you wish to address.

No, it is time we see this evil for what it is. You are the marxist troll here, unable to view criticism. But following my observation, that would be like expecting an alt-right neonazi to see the errors of their views. You don't get the benefit of "good intentions" and "moral high-ground" anymore. Stop claiming it. Left up to you it will degenerate into evil like this. You can shove your dog whistle up your loose as…

Posting like this is obviously a bannable offense on HN.

You posted egregious flamewar comments to this thread, noticeably worse than the bad things the other accounts did. This is not allowed on HN because it destroys what the site is supposed to be for, and we ban accounts that do it.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#68

Post by krageon » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 10:10 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #66

krageon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This exact rhetoric is something you often hear whenever any sort of left leaning person does anything remotely incriminating. It's really hard to separate the reasonable criticism from the neonazi trolling, which usually leaves one to search for embedded dog whistles. Of which this post has a few. I will leave it up to you if that is something you wish to address.

Please don't take HN threads further into ideological flamewar. It's exactly the opposite of what we're trying for here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I'll try to be better. This was ill-advised.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#69

Post by dang » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

corinroyal wrote: post #58

unpopularopp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is famously okay with hate if you hate the right group of people see /r/FuckYouKaren, /r/COVIDAteMyFace/ and of course aforementioned sub.

And thank God for it. Entitled people harassing retail workers deserve our hate. Idiots who endanger those around them by ridiculing anti-pandemic measures deserve our hate. You act like hate is a bad thing where criminals and plague-spreaders are the targets.

You've unfortunately been using HN primarily for ideological battle as well as breaking the site guidelines egregiously, and repeatedly, in other ways. We ban accounts that do that, because we're trying for something considerably different on this site.

I'm not going to ban you right now because I've noticed a few good comments in the mix*, but we badly need you to review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules if you want to keep posting here. Would you please do that? We'd appreciate it.

* e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29360124 (Nov 2021) and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27163099 (May 2021) - those are the kind of thing this site is supposed to be for!