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A $5B hoard of aluminum

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Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#61

Post by 14 »

verve_rat wrote: post #44
quesera wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Airstream trailers (1950s-1990s at least) can be buffed to a mirror-like finish. Oddly, new Airstreams seem to come pre-oxidized. Not sure if this is a design choice, or if they don't use aluminum any more.

Mirror finished anything on the road seems like a really bad hazard.

Well you will see big rigs with the polished tanks on the road already. They are typically cylindrical and even the back end is bubbled out so you do get some shine it’s not like a direct beam of light hitting your eyes.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#62

Post by pdabbadabba »

jaywalk wrote: post #50
jjtheblunt wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

really? citation?

"Fire is the rapid oxidation of a material" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire

You might want to include the end of that sentence: "...in the exothermic chemical process of combustion, releasing heat, light, and various reaction products."

This confirms the, imo, common-sense position that no, oxidation is not just a slow fire. A fire is a specific type of oxidation process that involves the production of significant light and heat. In other words, it is only true that oxidation is a slow fire if one adopts a definition of fire that is significantly different from its ordinary usage.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#63

Post by jaywalk »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #62
jaywalk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fire is the rapid oxidation of a material" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire

You might want to include the end of that sentence: "...in the exothermic chemical process of combustion, releasing heat, light, and various reaction products." This confirms the, imo, common-sense position that no , oxidation is not just a slow fire. A fire is a specific type of oxidation process that involves the production of significant light and heat. In other words, it is only true that oxidation is a slow fire…

A fire releases the "heat, light and various reaction products" that it does because of the speed of oxidation. It's obvious even from the snippet I posted that slow oxidation is not actually a fire.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#64

Post by labawi »

londons_explore wrote: post #13
orlp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and gotten an oxide layer Aluminium has an oxide layer the second it comes into contact with air.

Acids can make that much thicker. Acids that exist in the environment in small amounts...

Like sulfur / sulfuric acid from all the coal we're burning.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#65

Post by smallerfish »

conductr wrote: post #60
smallerfish wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good link, but to be fair it looks like it's leveled off since 2011. Oil & gas are continuing to grow, as are solar & wind.

Relative numbers can be misleading and saying coal consumption has decreased is actually false. We’re not doing Mother Earth any favors by sustaining very high consumption but the average reader would believe it’s a green trend.

I didn't say decreased, I said leveled off. Mouse over and compare 2011 with 2019.

Of course we need to cut coal usage as far as possible, if not completely.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#66

Post by pdabbadabba »

jaywalk wrote: post #63
pdabbadabba wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to include the end of that sentence: "...in the exothermic chemical process of combustion, releasing heat, light, and various reaction products." This confirms the, imo, common-sense position that no , oxidation is not just a slow fire. A fire is a specific type of oxidation process that involves the production of significant light and heat. In other words, it is only true that oxidation is a slow fire…

A fire releases the "heat, light and various reaction products" that it does because of the speed of oxidation. It's obvious even from the snippet I posted that slow oxidation is not actually a fire.

Yes, but aluminum oxidizes rapidly yet this oxidation process does not produce significant heat and light. So in this context, the independent heat/light requirement makes a difference!

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#67

Post by baybal2 »

bell-cot wrote: post #54
baybal2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy is scarce though. Only Chinese smelters have dolomite based production, which is much cheaper than bruteforce electrolysis.

I sense something else going on here. The mineral dolomite is hardly scarce, and the Pigeon Process (to produce magnesium from dolomite) was invented in Canada in the 1940's.

High quality magnesite, magnesia, and dolomites are scarce, but central China is one big slab of them.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#68

Post by barelysapient »

AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #38
adolph wrote: post #29

the aluminium industry consumed 6% of all global coal-fired electricity in 2019 – more coal-fired electricity than is generated in the whole of Europe – and is actually becoming more reliant on coal at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal. https://ember-climate.org/commentary/2020/10/06/aluminium/ The aluminium sector has a pivotal role to play here. Accounting for 1.1 billion tonnes of CO2 emission…

"at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal" No, we aren't becoming less reliant on coal. We should be but we aren't. Look at [1]. We actually consume more coal, oil and gas each and every year. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/energy-mix

Depends by who you mean by 'we'.

If you mean America, then coal consumption is down by nearly 50% since 2000[1]. If you mean the EU, then you'll be pleased to know we've also reduced our coal consumption substantially.

The principle increase in coal use is China. They've almost 4x their use of coal in the last 20 years. They also are leading the world in construction of new coal consuming power plants -- both in China and elsewhere[2].

[1]https://www.iea.org/reports/coal-2020/demand [2]https://www.wired.com/story/china-is-still-building-an-insan...

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#69

Post by quesera »

verve_rat wrote: post #44
quesera wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Airstream trailers (1950s-1990s at least) can be buffed to a mirror-like finish. Oddly, new Airstreams seem to come pre-oxidized. Not sure if this is a design choice, or if they don't use aluminum any more.

Mirror finished anything on the road seems like a really bad hazard.

There are no flat or concave surfaces, so any reflections are diffused out. Ends up not being an issue at all.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#70

Post by quesera »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #52
quesera wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Airstream trailers (1950s-1990s at least) can be buffed to a mirror-like finish. Oddly, new Airstreams seem to come pre-oxidized. Not sure if this is a design choice, or if they don't use aluminum any more.

It's for manufacturability, not design... Airstreams are now a premium brand, and it's quite expensive to develop and maintain a mirror polish. Someone buying a $150k polished trailer expects it to be completely unblemished. You can still polish it yourself, it only takes about 80 hours of manual labor...

That makes sense. Like a popcorn ceiling.

Also any road damage or wear will be much more visible on a polished surface, which is not a premium look.

I thought earlier-era Airstreams were buffed and clearcoated before initial sale. My only evidence is vintage photos, and the fact that some owners "restore" the mirror finish.

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