People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms • Hacker News Board

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#61

Post by agentgumshoe » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 12:37 PM UTC

Febra33 wrote: post #59

agentgumshoe wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, the vaccinated are still dying and going to hospital in increasing numbers while also (if the lancet etc are correct) carrying higher viral load and spreading the virus faster. It's not clear the vaccine end goal is a net benefit if the virus is not stopped, while also risking for evolution of hotter virus variants. The shame is that the unvaccinated are treated as some lower class almost criminals, w…

I just think that it's a shame so many resources go to waste into treating infected unvaccinated people (they have a higher chance of ending up in the hospital) when we could redirect those resources to people that can't avoid hospitalisation with something as easy as getting a vaccine. Many scientists have been saying for months now that the vaccine might not be that effective in protecting against an infection but…

But the vaccinated are still ending up in hospital in increasing numbers. It's not that simple. Also, it amazingly continues to remain anecdotal instead of receiving proper media/scientific investigation, but the side effect profile is nowhere near as small as reported. Considering the affected are mostly younger, it is concerning the level of dismissal directed at this, rather instead a trusting statements from the vaccine manufacturers (who have immunity) instead. There needs to be a bit more critical thinking here.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#62

Post by agentgumshoe » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 12:42 PM UTC

ChrisSD wrote: post #57

headsoup wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I may have misinterpreted. So the pass does actually provide live covid status (positive/negative)? That's interesting, I thought they just showed vaccine status

No. I'm saying it provides vaccine information which people can use to make an informed decision. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I believe in individual freedom. I should have the right to choose. I should have the right to associate with who I want to associate with. I'm really uncertain why people are so intent on taking away essential rights. Even though you may not agree with the choices people make, they shoul…

But you seem to be asking for the implementation of the passport, which takes away specifically the rights of others to freely associate. And, if you are vaccinated what is to be afraid of the unvaccinated for? They do not automatically have covid, likely more for them to fear from not knowing which vaccinated person happens to have covid instead.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#63

Post by ColinHayhurst » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 12:52 PM UTC

Jugurtha wrote: post #21

zo1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know about those protests at all till your comment.

Yeah. Considering they led to a President resigning after 20 years of systematic power concentration, to the head of intelligence services being thrown in jail, to a purge where prime ministers, ministers, generals, the head of the Police, and a bunch of other people going to jail, and the people still demanding that those who are throwing these 'corrupt' people in jail and the judges and prosecutors be removed, as t…

I too had not heard of these protests there, thank you for sharing.

I know very well about peaceful protests in North Macedonia[0], which thankfully led to a bloodless, at the ballet box, overthrow of a corrupt government. It was a powder keg for years, including fights in the parliament chamber (thankfully not involving guns) and the election vote was a knife edge decision. The former leader escaped to Humgary and is protected by Orban.

Similarly massive numbers of people (>30%) have fled the country also not because of violence, but because they don't see hope. The economy was ruined and money siphoned out by those in power. It has not got much better since, and now the country is again on a knife edge with the PM having resigned.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#64

Post by ColinHayhurst » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 12:59 PM UTC

agentgumshoe wrote: post #61

Febra33 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just think that it's a shame so many resources go to waste into treating infected unvaccinated people (they have a higher chance of ending up in the hospital) when we could redirect those resources to people that can't avoid hospitalisation with something as easy as getting a vaccine. Many scientists have been saying for months now that the vaccine might not be that effective in protecting against an infection but…

But the vaccinated are still ending up in hospital in increasing numbers. It's not that simple. Also, it amazingly continues to remain anecdotal instead of receiving proper media/scientific investigation, but the side effect profile is nowhere near as small as reported. Considering the affected are mostly younger, it is concerning the level of dismissal directed at this, rather instead a trusting statements from the…

My small sample of people would suggest that side effects are a lot worse than we are told. I know two people who took a first dose (one AZ, one Pfizer) and have been seriously ill and for months since. What should they do if vaccine passports come in? Miss out on their lives, or risk taking a 2nd dose, then face turmoil again for a 3rd, 4th .... ?

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#65

Post by readflaggedcomm » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

sto_hristo wrote: post #45

headsoup wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we force gastric bands on everyone instead to stop this obesity pandemic, the death toll is unbearable any longer. That sound 'trendy' for you? Just need to media to drum up all the fear about how eating crap is contagious and you eating less saves the lives of others who get your excess food. Still trendy?

But someone's weight doesn't pose a risk to the ones surrounding them. And i've yet to hear how hospitals get filled with obese people and doctors are struggling with waves after waves of obese people that need to be bedded and taken care of. These are simple things, but you need to have some bare minimum amount of neurons to realize this. And somehow you lost yours. What happened - an accident or is it congenital?

It does pose risks to others when it depletes social health resources.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#66

Post by sto_hristo » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

readflaggedcomm wrote: post #65

sto_hristo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But someone's weight doesn't pose a risk to the ones surrounding them. And i've yet to hear how hospitals get filled with obese people and doctors are struggling with waves after waves of obese people that need to be bedded and taken care of. These are simple things, but you need to have some bare minimum amount of neurons to realize this. And somehow you lost yours. What happened - an accident or is it congenital?

It does pose risks to others when it depletes social health resources.

And this is exactly what the virus has been doing since day one. Forcing one lockdown after another, because hospitals fill like it's nothing. In my city, ambulances have more in common with a private tour shuttles - jumping from one hospital to another.

Yet, these antivaxers simply can't accept reality. They are like flat earthers - Earth is round below their feet, but they insist the opposite. Only instead of NASA lying to them, now it's "fascism" (like anyone can give the actual definition of this), the pharma mafia, plandemic. A bunch of delusional morons in agreement with one another doesn't make them right. But for that to be realized, you gotta have a bare minimum of neurons left in the hollow top bone.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#67

Post by Santosh83 » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

agentgumshoe wrote: post #62

ChrisSD wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I'm saying it provides vaccine information which people can use to make an informed decision. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I believe in individual freedom. I should have the right to choose. I should have the right to associate with who I want to associate with. I'm really uncertain why people are so intent on taking away essential rights. Even though you may not agree with the choices people make, they shoul…

But you seem to be asking for the implementation of the passport, which takes away specifically the rights of others to freely associate. And, if you are vaccinated what is to be afraid of the unvaccinated for? They do not automatically have covid, likely more for them to fear from not knowing which vaccinated person happens to have covid instead.

Have you seen the kind of responses in this thread calling for ostracisation of the unvaccinated? The sentiments expressed are just short of calling for them to be put into camps. Especially when vaccinated don't even have much of threat from the unvaccinated and the Western world is already 3/4th fully vaccinated at least. And these are the educated, progressive people of the "first world", leading us all into light and freedom? Alarming...

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#68

Post by Jugurtha » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

rbut wrote: post #28

Jugurtha wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The peaceful protests in Algeria, gathering hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions, nation wide, every week, for close to three years, were 'barely' covered, even less so when the people were brutally assaulted and arrested by the thousands. There are some of them still in jail, they were snatched from cafés or from home. Some of them were arrested for a Facebook status, or a cartoon. Some were arrested for 'in…

So would you say that protests work?

Let's say that I'm more actively exploring options than ever before to:

- Make it possible for my younger teammates to have options (https://twitter.com/jugurthahadjar/status/145841354768011264...) and potentially get another passport that gives them options.

- Make it possible for them to have a sizeable equity to apologize for the opportunity cost they have incurred by staying.

- Make it possible for my whole family to have options.

Let's also say that practically everyone I know has left: I am in a local exile. Let's also say that I am way too familiar with how precincts work and have too many lawyers in my contacts for anyone not involved in criminal activities to have, and let's also say that I am extremely careful about what I say online. Let's also say that I'm pushing my friend whose wife is pregnant to make sure his wife gives birth elsewhere so his daughter gets a passport that offers mobility. Let's also say that my first advice to students who ask me for advice is to Get the Fuck Out, and let's also say that I'm constantly reminding my team to save money, and let's also say that I'm having conversations with my siblings to answer the question: what are we still doing here? (we're the only ones who have stayed. Practically all my family has left decades ago). My mother's refusal to live elsewhere was the main reason we stayed. She passed away in July.

Would you say that I have answered your question?

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#69

Post by gnucru » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

Egg an anti-vaxxer, earn your badge, ring the bell. It is time for hospitals to start limiting access to the unvaccinated. My mommy is one of the founding pathologists of Metro McNair clinical laboratories; now LifeLabs, that does most of the blood, piss, and other medical testing in Western Canada. Dinnertime discussion as a child included family troubleshooting of faulty/unusual lab results. Is my Mommy part of this conspiracy to take people's rights away..?? Or are we giving too much airtime to selfish ignorami, because that is really what it comes down to: people thinking they are more important than everyone else, and hence immune from moral compulsion. Who do YOU listen to..???

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#70

Post by gnucru » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

ColinHayhurst wrote: post #2

One has to wonder why these protests, which happen every week and are big, barely get reported in the media. When they are mentioned many people denounce them as being a bunch of anti-vaxxers. This is far from true, but like so much propoganda nowadays has an element of truth. Personally, I'm pro-vaccine, double jabbed and luckily no bad experiences with side effects. But I'm vehemently anti-vaccine passport. Every o…

Wow, that is a pretty misleading and irresponsible use of gov't data, and I would be surprised if it fooled anyone here. With 70% vaccination rate in the uk, the rate of infection among the vaxxed would need to be over double that of the unvaxxed to indicate a lack of effect. It is simple math. Are you really that oblivious(in which case you should probably keep your mouth shut), or are you just trying to make fools of others..???