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Hacking Ham Radio for Texting

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Re: Hacking Ham Radio for Texting

#61

Post by vitaflo »

paulirwin wrote: post #55
Steltek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encryption is a nerd sniping/clickbait topic. I would argue there are other rules with worse impact: - Baud rate vs symbol rate vs bandwidth occupied - No spread spectrum south of ~2.4GHz - New protocols/modes are a catch-22 of needing to be well known to be legal but then how do you create a new one from scratch? - Use-case specific power limits, like radio control. - "Gotcha" technicality fines like incidental broa…

The symbol rate vs bandwidth is hopefully changing; the ARRL is petitioning the FCC to make it a bandwidth limit instead. On many HF bands, there is limited bandwidth anyways, so the proposed 2.8kHz is a good balance without letting a single individual consume an entire band (i.e. 30m). Spread spectrum usually requires significant bandwidth, and there just aren't amateur bands below 222MHz that are large enough for t…

Great write up. Took the words out of my mouth.

Re: Hacking Ham Radio for Texting

#62

Post by madengr »

mikece wrote: post #2

Texting via APRS has been a thing for about 20 years. It's also a fantastic way to publish both your phone number and the numbers of the people you are texting in an easy to skim format. Digital modes is one of the areas where the HN crowd could introduce significant advancements to Amateur radio (while pissing off all of the older HAMs who just want to talk about the weather on 40m).

There have been significant advancements, without the HN community involved.

Re: Hacking Ham Radio for Texting

#64

Post by vitaflo »

edrxty wrote: post #4
mikece wrote: post #2

Texting via APRS has been a thing for about 20 years. It's also a fantastic way to publish both your phone number and the numbers of the people you are texting in an easy to skim format. Digital modes is one of the areas where the HN crowd could introduce significant advancements to Amateur radio (while pissing off all of the older HAMs who just want to talk about the weather on 40m).

It's safe only because nobody cares enough about ham radio to bother skimming anything. I've been pushing for encryption for years but just posting this well get a bunch of elmers posting upset replies. It's frustrating constantly being under the thumb of a generation that will not yield to progress

I have yet to hear what “progress” encryption enables that operating via and open protocol doesn’t.

Re: Hacking Ham Radio for Texting

#65

Post by generalizations »

thereddaikon wrote: post #37
generalizations wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that it doesn't scale - it's just there's a reason people use letters to communicate and not postcards. People expect a modicum of privacy which ham radio, to its detriment, denies.

Ham radio is not meant for that though. Its expressly meant for education and scientific experimentation by amateurs. What it actually gets used for is Boomers chewing the fat and LARPing as emergency services dispatchers mostly but the allocations were put in place to allow people to connect with one another and learn the science of RF in a practical way. The sad part is that the FCC has been more interested in main…

> But you are talking about normal people using radio for normal conversations.

> What it actually gets used for is Boomers chewing the fat

I'm only one data point, but I doubt my generation would 'chew the fat' on a call that anyone else in a wide radius would be listening in on. Not, at least, about anything that's personal. That's the point of my postcard analogy.

Re: Hacking Ham Radio for Texting

#66

Post by ryanmercer »

provobro wrote: post #6
thereddaikon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the FCC's rules around the Ham bands and digital modes ends up restricting a lot of potential for advancement and experimentation.

That and anyone using this would need a ham radio license

It's easy though. You can memorize the Technician pool in 5-10 hours with https://www.hamstudy.org or their app - the app is GREAT - (I know, my wife and I just did it and are testing for the tech Saturday, I've passed the last 100 something practice tests in a row) and the General is only slightly harder.

I'm working 60-70 hours a week, plus class, plus church responsibilities and I'm consistently getting 70-71% correct on the General already just from using the app for a half hour or so a day and listening to the question pool via KB6NU's book while I work since Monday morning. I probably won't get up to passing it Saturday but I can just do an online test in the next few weeks once my Tech is in the database Monday or Tuesday.

Getting the General gives you plenty of room to do stuff like this.

Re: Hacking Ham Radio for Texting

#67

Post by ryanmercer »

thereddaikon wrote: post #37
generalizations wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that it doesn't scale - it's just there's a reason people use letters to communicate and not postcards. People expect a modicum of privacy which ham radio, to its detriment, denies.

Ham radio is not meant for that though. Its expressly meant for education and scientific experimentation by amateurs. What it actually gets used for is Boomers chewing the fat and LARPing as emergency services dispatchers mostly but the allocations were put in place to allow people to connect with one another and learn the science of RF in a practical way. The sad part is that the FCC has been more interested in main…

>and LARPing as emergency services dispatchers

Uh, they might LARP in your neck of the woods but my county HEAVILY relies on amateur operators for weather related emergencies all year long (tornado country plus snow country).

It's the primary reason my wife and I are getting into amateur radio.

Re: Hacking Ham Radio for Texting

#68

Post by genewitch »

detaro wrote: post #46
edrxty wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also completely prevents any interesting radio experimentation. There isn't anything left on that frontier that couldn't be conflated with encryption.

What's more conflated with encryption than e.g. the level of encoding you find in DVB-S or FT-8?

Ft-8, jt-9, jt-65, and wspr all break the rules when on 60 meters.

No one cares...

You're only allowed to transmit square on center of the allotted channels, and, this is the important bit, one person at a time. All the modes that JT invented flat out ignore both rules for 60 meter transmissions.

I don't care, but I get sick of people telling me that my pactor modem is "illegal".

Re: Hacking Ham Radio for Texting

#69

Post by genewitch »

ryanmercer wrote: post #66
provobro wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and anyone using this would need a ham radio license

It's easy though. You can memorize the Technician pool in 5-10 hours with https://www.hamstudy.org or their app - the app is GREAT - (I know, my wife and I just did it and are testing for the tech Saturday, I've passed the last 100 something practice tests in a row) and the General is only slightly harder. I'm working 60-70 hours a week, plus class, plus church responsibilities and I'm consistently getting 70-71% cor…

I'm gonna be a little bit of a jerk, here. The general can be crammed for but I don't think it should be. Cram the technician license if you just "gotta get on air". The general and extra should be reserved for people who can answer questions at their level and below. Merely reading part 97 of the FCC regulations is enough to technically pass the parts of all three that don't have anything to do with "a station", yet 90% of every argument I've had with hams is interpretation of said rules ( and part 95, and part 90.)

I don't want to discourage anyone, but the investment in effort and money between tech and general is in the 4-5 digit range of dollars and hours.

By all means study. But cramming the test questions isn't studying and will leave you as an appliance operator that will constantly be told, if ever on the air, that they're doing something either rude, against the rules, or dangerous.

Re: Hacking Ham Radio for Texting

#70

Post by GekkePrutser »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #50
thereddaikon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the FCC's rules around the Ham bands and digital modes ends up restricting a lot of potential for advancement and experimentation.

I'm not sure about the FCC, but usually, only encryption is prohibited. Otherwise, there are many data protocols, even new ones developed for ham networks, in ~10mbit range for IP, eg: http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/nbp/nbp.html

Thanks this protocol is very interesting. Hadn't heard of it yet.
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