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Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

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Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#61

Post by protonimitate »

Keats wrote: post #23
gavinray wrote: post #15

Well, this is awesome -- but fuck me: Vue is the only major player not under the Vercel umbrella now, haha. Looks like I might have to phone in half a decade of experience. Svelte is close enough to Vue with "script setup" mode anyways, the major difference is whether your logic/keywords go INSIDE the HTML tags or OUTSIDE. Svelte doesn't support JSX/TSX though =(

> Svelte doesn't support JSX/TSX though =( You have https://www.solidjs.com/ that does

Admittedly I haven't followed Svelte super closely, but isn't "no JSX/TSX" kind of a major ideological point? From reading the intro docs, it seems like separation of js/css/html is a selling point. JSX/TSX would contradict that, no?

Just wondering if my read is correct or if there's some other reason it's been left off the table.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#62

Post by lmeyerov »

friedman23 wrote: post #43
WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #39

Cloudflare will regret not having a developer go-to framework for their advanced Worker stuff one day. I think they are waiting for someone else to build for it which is IMO the completely wrong approach for the dream of the serverless app. You got to own the full stack including software. I can easily see Vercel becoming the pretty much only go-to in this space just from the developer trust they have created with Ne…

Vercel is built on cloudflare workers meaning vercel winning means cloudflare wins. Also I think building out the datacenters across the globe is a much harder problem than building out a framework.

making a framework popular is harder than making data center stuff; people successfully rack boxes and crank rust/go/js/.. every day, but most js frameworks fail

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#65

Post by dceddia »

gnrlst wrote: post #48
dceddia wrote: post #3

This seems like a huge positive step forward for Svelte and the community. Big congrats to Rich! I've been excited about Svelte for a while and recently chose to use it as the UI for a cross-platform video editing app ( https://getrecut.com ), with the back end in Rust. I've found it a pleasure to work with -- Svelte Stores and the Context system are especially great for sharing state, and the app feels snappy. Last…

I see your app is MacOS only at the moment. Are you re-writing it in Electron or what? Very curious

Yeah, rewriting it with Electron + Svelte + a Rust backend for the heavy lifting.

I looked at alternatives to Electron because I wanted to avoid the bloat, but nothing felt like the right fit. Tauri (https://tauri.studio/) is the most exciting, but I couldn't find a good way to get raw video frames into the UI without a bunch of expensive copies or serialization. I also looked at native toolkits like Qt (I've worked with it in the past) but I didn't love the idea of building lots of custom UI components without the benefit of HTML + CSS. So for now it's Rust + Electron, and I'm paying extra attention to performance.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#66

Post by admn2 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #46
WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #39

Cloudflare will regret not having a developer go-to framework for their advanced Worker stuff one day. I think they are waiting for someone else to build for it which is IMO the completely wrong approach for the dream of the serverless app. You got to own the full stack including software. I can easily see Vercel becoming the pretty much only go-to in this space just from the developer trust they have created with Ne…

I predict that Cloudflare will acquire Vercel one day.

I do think it's interesting how they've positioned Cloudflare Pages. Kind of an "Amazon" move. Unlimited bandwidth and seats. Will be interesting to see though if it works for Cloudflare, they still don't even have Gitlab integration.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#67

Post by ativzzz »

dexwiz wrote: post #35
hunterb123 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems more like variety. React is in a league of it's own with React Native. For web tech Svelte is cool, for app tech it's not on the radar. I used to be a web developer, now I'm a React Native / RNW developer. I don't use web tech unless I'm making a simple web page, when I do I use vanilla HTML/CSS/optional JS. You get a web app for free when you make a RN app. You can share 95% of code among 5 platforms. (web, wi…

How is RN? I have seen several teams try to consolidate their App Devs into RN devs, only to split back into iOS/Android devs. From what I’m told, if your app could be a webpage, RN is great. But if you need to really leverage the specific platforms, it’s hard to do that.

It's probably because they had a team of experienced iOS/Android engineers, who are significantly more productive in their respective platforms.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#68

Post by ravenstine »

Awesome news! Having worked with frontend frameworks for years, I've grown pessimistic about them in general, but I'm enthusiastic about Svelte because it does so many things right that actually avoid a lot of the issues other frameworks claim to solve but actually make worse.

Interacting with the Svelte compiler is ridiculously easy. Though the documentation can be improved, I found it trivial to import the Svelte compiler and prerender a component into an HTML string. Yes, this is somewhat of a niche thing to do, but I appreciate it when libraries and frameworks make it easy to access its internals. Heck, I pretty easily managed to implement Typescript support for Svelte components using Deno's `emit` function; hooking into Svelte's preprocessing was trivial, the complexity I ran into being on the Deno side.

Contrast that with Ember, which seems to have an attitude of "no one would or should ever want to do that", making it really hard to do anything slightly off the beaten path without lots of trial and error or entering the Ember inner-circle.

Yes, I know I'm comparing a component library to a framework, but what I'm commenting on is more about development philosophy.

It's good to hear the creator of Svelte will be able to dedicate his time to it and be able to provide project guidance. I think he has the right vision for what Svelte should be.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#70

Post by rglover »

didip wrote: post #64

Can someone teach me how Svelte does what it does? The front page is not telling me much? How does it "surgically" update the DOM? Why is it better than virtual DOM?

Surgical = "It checks a diff of what the component rendered before an update vs. after and then only patches or updates the parts of the DOM that need to be changed (as opposed to replacing the entire DOM, which is slow)." Similar to React. Svelte may not be using the exact same mechanisms but this is in the ballpark.

Virtual DOM is just an in-memory representation of the DOM that describes which child elements (e.g., a nested within a ) belong to which parents, and which attributes/values those elements need at render time. When a change happens, you can generate an updated virtual DOM and diff it against the previous (or current) version and pick out what specifically needs to be changed in the DOM (read: surgically).

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