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Improving first impressions on Signal

signal.org

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Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#61

Post by kijiki »

Tistron wrote: post #41

Is there a reason, when they have control of the client software and the protocol, that they don't introduce computational cost to establishing contact? Like, if I send a message to a particular number, and their client receives a message from me for the first time, it responds with "prove that it's worth it for you to message me: find an `n` character string that together with `random string` hashes to 5 leading zer…

The issue with these sorts of HashCash schemes is that legitimate users need to PoW their messages on a battery powered phone with a basic CPU and GPU. Spammers can use big, mains-powered GPUs, or better yet, botnets full of stolen CPU-time from mains-powered desktops/servers/etc.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#62

Post by bryans »

stereoradonc wrote: post #57
modeless wrote: post #21

Just got a new phone and migrating Signal was a total disaster. The first thing I did was login to the new phone which is apparently the wrong thing to do because you lose all your old messages and there's no option to import after you login. You have to logout but there is no logout . Gotta uninstall and reinstall, or clear app data. Next I tried the account migration feature which requires using both phones simulta…

Try Telegram. It's easier to get seduced by tall sounding words like "cryptography", censorship, "security", anonymity etc. Those are just buzz words. Try something that works seamlessly across platforms.

End-to-end encryption is not just some buzz word, and Telegram requires you to opt-in to encryption, making it absurdly insecure by default.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#63

Post by crossroadsguy »

alerighi wrote: post #18
asethos wrote: post #2

Signal's message requests is a major selling point for me. I recently created a Signal account after having a bad experience in which someone used my phone number to harass me with SMS/calls (every time, from a different VOIP number). It's frustrating that, even in this era, there is no good way to filter out malicious actors from SMS/call. P.S. You can sign up with Signal via a VOIP number to avoid sharing your real…

It's complicated and can be expensive. Also people that has you real phone number cannot contact you on Signal, so you have to have two accounts, one with your real number to chat with your contacts and another one with the fake one to share with strangers that you don't trust, and as far as I know the Signal app doesn't support two account (yes on Android there are ways to have two instances of the app, on iOS you c…

On Telegram if anyone else has your phone number in their contacts then they’d know it’s you even if you initiated the communication via username. Or that’s how it was. I am not sure if this has changed/been fixed.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#64

Post by bryans »

stereoradonc wrote: post #58
alerighi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's complicated and can be expensive. Also people that has you real phone number cannot contact you on Signal, so you have to have two accounts, one with your real number to chat with your contacts and another one with the fake one to share with strangers that you don't trust, and as far as I know the Signal app doesn't support two account (yes on Android there are ways to have two instances of the app, on iOS you c…

Completely agree. Telegram is far superior to any other platform out there. Balance of privacy and security, by default.

How can you say that when Telegram's end-to-end encryption is disabled by default, and you need to go out of your way to create a secret chat? Their default is the opposite of secure.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#65

Post by jtriangle »

vlmutolo wrote: post #50
jakecopp wrote: post #36

> To keep Signal a free global communication service without spam, we must depart from our totally-open posture and develop one piece of the server in private: a system for detecting and disrupting spam campaigns. Interesting. Matrix solves this problem by not associating a username with a phone number or email address (unless you opt in to). Does anyone have views on if this will work into the future? I'm moved ~90…

How does not requiring a phone number help fight spam?

phone numbers are all well leaked and accounted for at this point, and it's trivial for spammers to build a list of 'hot' phone numbers to try to scam with.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#66

Post by Canada »

kijiki wrote: post #60
Canada wrote: post #8

Not looking forward to this... I use bots and I bet this will make them stop working at some inconvenient time. I wish I could put up collateral, say stablecoin in a smart contract, where Signal can ban my account and keep the money if I abuse, but otherwise do not break my automation.

Unless your bots are doing things that get their messages reported by recipients, this shouldn't affect you at all.

Hope you're right. I only create groups and add my approximately 10 users to. The bot posts events in a group and also takes action based on commands users can say in group. I used to have an onboading process where my bot would message a user to ask if it's ok to be added to the group.. the purpose being for the user to reply so the bot can learn the safety number. Recent changes kinda broke that.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#67

Post by Canada »

awiuerqwoieru wrote: post #9
Canada wrote: post #8

Not looking forward to this... I use bots and I bet this will make them stop working at some inconvenient time. I wish I could put up collateral, say stablecoin in a smart contract, where Signal can ban my account and keep the money if I abuse, but otherwise do not break my automation.

Why are you not using elements?

Have definitely considered this. Running your own matrix server definitely solves the spam problem, and element has some cool looking plugin featues that go beyond simple chat bot... Just have been using Signal for many years already, find it very convenient on mobile, and already put quite a bit of effort into my bot for it.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#68

Post by discordance »

Waterluvian wrote: post #31
Aulig wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? You can disable the PIN reminder in the settings if you want to. Or is that not available everywhere? It's working for me on Android and Windows. I've disabled it as I store my PIN in my password manager.

Either that’s new or I’m just a loud bozo. Thanks for sharing!

You're definitely not a bozo. These defaults are the sort of things that need to be polished.

A simple one page screen on first install that asks a few questions would be a nice:

1. "Would you like to be nagged for your pin every few days?" - Yes/No

2. Are you moving from another device and would you like to restore from a backup? - Yes/No

etc...

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#69

Post by johnisgood »

bryans wrote: post #62
stereoradonc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try Telegram. It's easier to get seduced by tall sounding words like "cryptography", censorship, "security", anonymity etc. Those are just buzz words. Try something that works seamlessly across platforms.

End-to-end encryption is not just some buzz word, and Telegram requires you to opt-in to encryption, making it absurdly insecure by default.

And there is no E2EE on desktop. People should really stop talking about Telegram when we are talking about secure private messaging apps. Telegram DOES NOT HAVE E2EE on desktop and it is opt-in on phones.

Briar is the best choice on phones, and it is also available on desktop which is under development. For now, Ricochet is the best choice on desktop (only). I get that it would be nice to have a piece of software working on both desktop and phone, but still. For that I just use Element.

Re: Improving first impressions on Signal

#70

Post by johnisgood »

bryans wrote: post #64
stereoradonc wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. Telegram is far superior to any other platform out there. Balance of privacy and security, by default.

How can you say that when Telegram's end-to-end encryption is disabled by default, and you need to go out of your way to create a secret chat? Their default is the opposite of secure.

And again, there is no E2EE on desktop. Telegram looks nice, and it ends there.
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