Earlier quoted context omitted.
> MHO, the Swift Foundation needs to move much more of the ecosystem to platforms other than Apple's. I suspect Apple is trying to do this for straightforward reasons like wanting to remain relevant and foster community growth as to retain credibility… while also subtly trying to not encourage the use of Swift as a language for any other GUI framework/platform than Cocoa + macOS. Obviously I don’t have any evidence t…
I never liked X11, its API is much worse than any complaint one can imagine over Win32. It is no surprise that the only UNIX clones that had a good desktop user experience always did their own thing instead of pursuing the X11/Motif path.
Swift Distributed Actors
61–70 of 135 posts
Re: Swift Distributed Actors
#62Question for folks: where do server-side Swift folks hang out? I've been writing server-side / enterprise code in Swift for about a year now, and the language has really grown on me. But it's a small community, and IBM's & Google's departures were a big blow to the feeling of inevitable growth to it. I'd love to find a watering hole to chat with others in the same small niche.
Re: Swift Distributed Actors
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was once a really nice open source cross-platform framework called Apportable that provided an Obj-C compatibility layer on Android. You could develop your app on iOS and then last moment build it on Android with some minimal changes. I tried it for one of my projects and it worked just great. Guess what happened to Apportable? It was quietly acquired by Google and completely shut down within days, with practic…
I don’t see how they would block apple from providing a good experience without crippling the whole NDK community
https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides
> Squeeze extra performance out of a device to achieve low latency or run computationally intensive applications, such as games or physics simulations.
> Reuse your own or other developers' C or C++ libraries.
Using this set of public APIs:
https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis
Anything else is going into the "works on my device dunno about your's" territory.
Re: Swift Distributed Actors
#64Re: Swift Distributed Actors
#65Re: Swift Distributed Actors
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don’t think this is nefarious. X11 is a klunky GUI, at best, That's the problem: I see you're being dismissive of X due to its ergonomics and aesthetics despite the fact that X just-works and is still a vital component in computing: the same reason Windows retains both cmd.exe and PowerShell - I feel that your kind of reasoning is why we think Apple is so capricious with their consumer products (removing iPhone h…
Is it Apple’s responsibility to maintain X on the Mac, though? If they want to implement something that may interfere with X (usually they do this kind of thing because security), should they cripple the experience for half a billion users, to appease a small minority of techies? I’ve been writing software for Apple devices since 1986, which means that I’ve had lots of rugs pulled out from under me, and have been inc…
Yes and no.
So POSIX and the Unix Specification(TM) are standards thanks to the US federal government putting their foot-down and mandating that major contractors (like IBM, Sun, HP, etc) stop being incompatible with each other - and in-practice this also means having to support X.
When OS X launched Apple loved to tell everyone that it was a true Unix(TM) system - (after-all, they did spend the money to get it certified as a real Unix system), and this meant that OS X-based systems were suddenly candidates for major US and international scientific and research contracts and gigs - which dovtailed nicely with the hype around their boasts of the PowerMac G5's literal supercomputer performance (and indeed: literal supercomputers comprised of racks of G5 machines in a bunch of US Navy Labs).
Now, in the 2020s, it's clear that since the iPhone dominated their revenue that Apple is no-longer really interested in being part of government supercomputing and scientific computing contracts - the positive PR and technical credibility they gain from all of those government projects is insignificant compared to the cash revenue value of simply running another iPhone ad-campaign. The 2013 Mac Pro was solid proof that Apple does not value the high-end desktop and workstation computing markets anymore. Apple seems content to even let Windows take away their previously impentrable hold on the desktop video-editing market: whoever was using FCP on a MP in 2006 is almost certainly using Adobe Premier on Windows today.
...having said all of that, I was surprised to see that macOS 12.0 Monterey is still an official Unix(TM) certified product: https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3673.htm - despite Apple's deprecation (and obsolescence?) of their support for X.
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So my point, if anything, is that if Apple wants to maintain its credibility as a high-end computing systems provider, it needs to revert back to doing far more than paying lip-service to being a Unix vendor - and that includes bringing native support for X (and some form of compatibility with the rest of the Unix/Linux GUI ecosystem) back into macOS - but if Apple continues to remain uninterested in selling themselves as a professional workstation vendor (which I feel is implicit in how they've been locking-down macOS and their Apple Silicon-based machines) then you're right, they don't have any responsibility to maintain compatibility with X.
As it is, I don't know what Apple wants - or even what Apple would do in the event they lose their cash-cow and grip on the world when the iPhone is somehow obsoleted by a competitor. Of course if that happens then they'll quickly reverse-course and try to make-up for all of their substandard devX moments.
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> That said, I’ve never regretted choosing it as my preferred platform, despite thirty years of insults and put-downs from other tech folks.
Pardon my asking, but I'm especially curious - what kind of software do you write? Unless you work for major creative-tools companies like Adobe - or a boutique Mac shop like Panic nor indie Mac App Store dev - I have trouble imagining what market there is for other types of software on the Mac. Whatever native macOS / Cocoa line-of-business software there was over the past couple of decades will have certainly transitions over to being a SaaS web-app by now.
Re: Swift Distributed Actors
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it Apple’s responsibility to maintain X on the Mac, though? If they want to implement something that may interfere with X (usually they do this kind of thing because security), should they cripple the experience for half a billion users, to appease a small minority of techies? I’ve been writing software for Apple devices since 1986, which means that I’ve had lots of rugs pulled out from under me, and have been inc…
> Is it Apple’s responsibility to maintain X on the Mac, though? Yes and no. So POSIX and the Unix Specification(TM) are standards thanks to the US federal government putting their foot-down and mandating that major contractors (like IBM, Sun, HP, etc) stop being incompatible with each other - and in-practice this also means having to support X. When OS X launched Apple loved to tell everyone that it was a true Unix(…
Suffice it to say that a few folks (and I don’t claim to have a huge fanbase) seem to like the stuff I write.
As fas as SaaS… Well, let’s just say that this is a familiar tune. That ol’ “thin client” zombie just keeps lurching out of the grave…
Re: Swift Distributed Actors
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it Apple’s responsibility to maintain X on the Mac, though? If they want to implement something that may interfere with X (usually they do this kind of thing because security), should they cripple the experience for half a billion users, to appease a small minority of techies? I’ve been writing software for Apple devices since 1986, which means that I’ve had lots of rugs pulled out from under me, and have been inc…
> Is it Apple’s responsibility to maintain X on the Mac, though? Yes and no. So POSIX and the Unix Specification(TM) are standards thanks to the US federal government putting their foot-down and mandating that major contractors (like IBM, Sun, HP, etc) stop being incompatible with each other - and in-practice this also means having to support X. When OS X launched Apple loved to tell everyone that it was a true Unix(…
No one fully supports POSIX.
Aside from server systems like AIX or HP-UX Apple is literally the only company that has a POSIX-certified consumer OS (OS X since 10.5 Leopard [1]).
> So my point, if anything, is that if Apple wants to maintain its credibility as a high-end computing systems provider, it needs to revert back to doing far more than paying lip-service to being a Unix vendor - and that includes bringing native support for X
What's "high-end computing systems provider"? Apple is doing really fine as is. Why should they do "far more", and why does this "far more" specifically includes support for X? They supported X for years (OS X 10.2 to 10.7), and then decided it wasn't worth it (and it isn't).
[1] https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/index2.html
Re: Swift Distributed Actors
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
I skimmed through the blog post, and it seems to me that they are not claiming they invented something new, just that they are adding this to Swift language. (Distributed) actor model is nothing new, but I definitely wouldn't classify it as something that's common in other languages. To my knowledge Erlang/OTP is the only mainstream language where this is part of the standard library. There are implementations for ot…
They are adding features they 'took' to put it kindly from other existing, mature implementations without giving any credit or acknowledgement. Not only that, they expect people to test their beta grade software because they keep releasing it half baked ever since the release of Swift itself. It's embarrassing and it also angers me because these companies have wall gardened their ecosystems to proprietary languages a…
[1]: https://github.com/ktoso/swift-evolution/blob/distributed-re...