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A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

fortune.com

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Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#61

Post by MisterBastahrd »

refurb wrote: post #35

The outrage cycle is strong with this one. Is this what social media amplifies? Some dude who makes a statement that is clearly atypical gets hyper focused on while internet “pundits” scream at each other about it? It’s clearly an extreme statement, made with the perfect intent to stoke outrage, that gets amplified, then Fortune writes an article and it gets linked on HN. Whatever happens to “wow that’s a dumb statem…

The person who made the statement isn't just some random person. He's someone who is in charge of a company that has employees and an HR department. It's a disqualifying statement as a leader.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#62

Post by kettro »

iammisc wrote: post #55
JKCalhoun wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are talking about the first 6 months (I don't think your 6 month old will appreciate how much you were working that first 6 months). I'm no history major but I am pretty sure woman have been as much the workers as men (think the gather component of hunter/gatherer).

I'm not a history major, but I'm pretty sure the entire concept of parental leave is completely alien to all of history. Historically, the majority of people were unemployed and worked for themselves on their own farm / craft. Having children just meant doing farm work / artisanship with your children around, not taking a break.

Historically, many children died in the first year. Historically, most family’s had the idea of “heir and a spare”. Historically, women were the only people to provide child care. Historically, women didn’t have a separate career, nor went to school.

Thankfully, we don’t need to be beholden to history.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#63

Post by nostrademons »

threatofrain wrote: post #60
nostrademons wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's laying the groundwork, though. You can't be a good role model unless your kid trusts you, and that trust starts being built at birth.

If the father isn't there for the first 6 months of child rearing, but the mother, friends, family, and hired nannies are, is it clear that a child will face lifelong repercussions?

These aren't all-or-nothing effects. Kids are resilient and adaptable, and it's never too late to start building a relationship.

But it is a relationship. If dad hasn't been there in the past, kid's got no reason to go to him for comfort or guidance in the future. That starts at birth, with holding & skin-to-skin contact, and continues through daily caregiving.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#64

Post by iammisc »

kettro wrote: post #62
iammisc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a history major, but I'm pretty sure the entire concept of parental leave is completely alien to all of history. Historically, the majority of people were unemployed and worked for themselves on their own farm / craft. Having children just meant doing farm work / artisanship with your children around, not taking a break.

Historically, many children died in the first year. Historically, most family’s had the idea of “heir and a spare”. Historically, women were the only people to provide child care. Historically, women didn’t have a separate career, nor went to school. Thankfully, we don’t need to be beholden to history.

> Thankfully, we don’t need to be beholden to history.

That was kind of the point of my comment. I think my snark went over your head.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#65

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

llampx wrote: post #18
arpyzo wrote: post #7

Every time I've switched jobs I looked back and questioned the time and effort I put in. It seems like I never got back what I put in. When it comes to my son though, I've never once regretted the time and effort I dedicated to him. Sounds like the real loser is Joe Lonsdale. I hope he'll come to understand what's truly import during the short time on this planet before it's too late.

I don't know if Jon is a father but I would absolutely not be surprised if, when he becomes one, he does take a healthy paternity leave. Many of these people are very "do as I say, not as i do" types.

> "I don't know if Jon is a father..."

The article mentions that he is the father of three.

It's also worth noting that the article title omits part of the tweet; the actual text says "...any man in an important position...", so he's not talking about ordinary workers.

(On a meta level, it's actually kind of regrettable that there's a HN guideline against encouraging posters to read the article before commenting since it's clear that so many don't.)

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#66

Post by HWR_14 »

arpyzo wrote: post #7

Every time I've switched jobs I looked back and questioned the time and effort I put in. It seems like I never got back what I put in. When it comes to my son though, I've never once regretted the time and effort I dedicated to him. Sounds like the real loser is Joe Lonsdale. I hope he'll come to understand what's truly import during the short time on this planet before it's too late.

In fairness, I doubt you ever switched jobs with billions in the bank. I assume as a Palintir founder, Joe has.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#67

Post by dragonwriter »

Au contraire, a man who is able to take 6 months of paternity—in the US at least—has already won.

A man in an important position (as if any other would have the choice) who is able to but chooses not to for fear of being seen as a loser is a chump, though.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#68

Post by llampx »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #25
llampx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if Jon is a father but I would absolutely not be surprised if, when he becomes one, he does take a healthy paternity leave. Many of these people are very "do as I say, not as i do" types.

Joe has every incentive to convince other people to minimize paternity leave. Morality is for the working class.

This is sad but true.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#69

Post by llampx »

999900000999 wrote: post #38

Another way to look at this is anyone who can take that much leave is absolutely privilege compared to typical working class people. Back when I was working minimum wage or near minimum wage it was rare to even see women take more than a month off. Many new fathers would only take one or two days. So at least with my working class background this is a couple of privileged people, from an extremely privileged class co…

It is also a privilege to have a roof over your head and running water. There are billions of people who don't have those things. I don't see how such ultra-woke comments add to the discussion.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#70

Post by llampx »

cvhashim wrote: post #52
brodouevencode wrote: post #11

The rhetoric is harsh, but I can sympathize with him. I would rather my children see how hard I work (it never went unnoticed), and now that they are older I happily include them in on what I do. But those early years should be dedicated to learning how to be social and nice - things women are better at than men on average. Traditionally men have been the workers, women have been the caregivers. This model has worked…

I wish I spent more time with my dad growing up. He loved his work. I’m sure he believed in his mind he was working hard for his family. If I ever have children, I’ll make sure to be there for them.

Same here. However according to some voices here and in the media, we are "losers" for thinking that way.
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