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My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

mattlakeman.org

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Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#61

Post by giantg2 »

beebmam wrote: post #45
8bitsrule wrote: post #29

My condolences to anyone who's lost a friend or relative to addiction - thanks to the human vultures who reap the rewards. It's possible that by vigorously pursuing and prosecuting the people who can afford to purchase and disseminate hard narcotics - instead of the users and a pusher or two - most of the problem would dry up. I'm not optimistic about that happening. The little guys are easier to catch, and caps are…

It's not popular here on Hacker News due to its libertarian bent, but I'm of the opinion that we should even more brutal to illegal drug production, trafficking, and selling than what we currently are. I've lost 2 friends to fentanyl poisoning in the last 3 years, and I lost my brother 10 years ago to chronic meth use. I'm so utterly sick of this.

I don't know, the current penalties can be pretty stiff already. You can also prosecute under both federal and state laws to stack the terms. They just don't care to do that in most cases.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#62

Post by nielsbot »

beebmam wrote: post #45
8bitsrule wrote: post #29

My condolences to anyone who's lost a friend or relative to addiction - thanks to the human vultures who reap the rewards. It's possible that by vigorously pursuing and prosecuting the people who can afford to purchase and disseminate hard narcotics - instead of the users and a pusher or two - most of the problem would dry up. I'm not optimistic about that happening. The little guys are easier to catch, and caps are…

It's not popular here on Hacker News due to its libertarian bent, but I'm of the opinion that we should even more brutal to illegal drug production, trafficking, and selling than what we currently are. I've lost 2 friends to fentanyl poisoning in the last 3 years, and I lost my brother 10 years ago to chronic meth use. I'm so utterly sick of this.

(Not a libertarian) I get the sentiment, but it's been shown that the war on drugs approach is expensive and ineffective.

That said, I haven't lived your experience, so I can't really know what you're feeling...

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#63

Post by jessaustin »

giantg2 wrote: post #46

"But other kids know from day-one that they have no future." A lack of hope is a crushing thing. It can lead to drugs, crime, etc. It seems to get worse the more intelligent one gets (why am I a failure if everyone says I'm so smart? Or just being smart enough to know just how hopeless things are). It can be even worse if you know you'll never live up to your parent's level of success (look at all the sons of the old…

It is not realistic to expect everyone to achieve commercial success greater than her or his parents. A healthier human society would emphasize other priorities.

Fortunately, we don't have to simply accept the priorities of those who surround us.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#64

Post by d136o »

yholio wrote: post #40
8bitsrule wrote: post #29

My condolences to anyone who's lost a friend or relative to addiction - thanks to the human vultures who reap the rewards. It's possible that by vigorously pursuing and prosecuting the people who can afford to purchase and disseminate hard narcotics - instead of the users and a pusher or two - most of the problem would dry up. I'm not optimistic about that happening. The little guys are easier to catch, and caps are…

Or maybe you could move the other way: treat addiction as a disease and provide free, pharmaceutical grade product or methadone substitutes to all that request it, if they suffer from addiction. It costs essentially nothing. This will not only kill the bulk of market and force dealers out in the open to find new, high risk recreational customers as opposed to cash cow addicts; but will also give a livable life to the…

At the heart of the opioid epidemic was a company run by medical doctors, with a sales force targeting medical doctors, and a budget to not only buy themselves positive medical literature but also the government agencies that were supposed to watch out for the public, oh and also they had enough wealth to buy themselves immunity from criminal or financial liability.

I am not sure that the solution is a pharmaceutical product…

And I say this as someone who has been pro-science his whole life. It’s just that training people that a pill will solve their problems is a recipe for creating addicts?

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#65

Post by giantg2 »

jessaustin wrote: post #63
giantg2 wrote: post #46

"But other kids know from day-one that they have no future." A lack of hope is a crushing thing. It can lead to drugs, crime, etc. It seems to get worse the more intelligent one gets (why am I a failure if everyone says I'm so smart? Or just being smart enough to know just how hopeless things are). It can be even worse if you know you'll never live up to your parent's level of success (look at all the sons of the old…

It is not realistic to expect everyone to achieve commercial success greater than her or his parents. A healthier human society would emphasize other priorities. Fortunately, we don't have to simply accept the priorities of those who surround us.

It's not that everyone does, but that some kids feel that way and turn to this. I think it's not as much of a problem as the hopelessness.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#66

Post by c23gooey »

nwienert wrote: post #47
dustintrex wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was first prescribed opiates for an injury.

Just to throw in my 2c, I’ve had dilaudid a few times for an injury and other opiates for various reasons, and while they feel great, they really never cross my mind much and I don’t hold them close to many sober experiences. Not even as good as other drugs, of which I could list 3-4 I’d consider as or more enjoyable. The above comment feels like a really dramatic description of opiates. I don’t think most anyone wit…

I think people experience the euphoria of opiates differently. Anecdotally - i've never found opiates compelling. I appreciate their ability to numb severe pain, but they don't do anything for me as a mental release. Whereas a good friend is the opposite, he loves the feeling opiates give him and gets quite a kick out of them. He is very careful around them because he understands that he could easily slip into a full blown addiction with them. BTW - this friend has a stable job, a loving wife and 2 kids.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#67

Post by iainctduncan »

d136o wrote: post #54

I’ve just finished reading Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty , and I highly recommend it. An amazing multi generational history of how the Sacklers inflicted opioids on the US, made a fortune, and got away with no consequence. It was pretty interesting to read this during pandemic times, and it’s a prime example of how institutions lose legitimacy in the public’s eye. The Sacklers had the FDA…

I am also reading it. It's fucking horrifying. Absolutely recommend.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#68

Post by s5300 »

nwienert wrote: post #47
dustintrex wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was first prescribed opiates for an injury.

Just to throw in my 2c, I’ve had dilaudid a few times for an injury and other opiates for various reasons, and while they feel great, they really never cross my mind much and I don’t hold them close to many sober experiences. Not even as good as other drugs, of which I could list 3-4 I’d consider as or more enjoyable. The above comment feels like a really dramatic description of opiates. I don’t think most anyone wit…

> feels like a really dramatic description of opiates. I don’t think most anyone with a moderately stable life is at risk of addiction trying them.

A few years back, perhaps close to a decade ago, there was a fairly well known reporter/journalist who said this same thing. Of course, he was cocky enough to test his presumptions & tried either some form of opiate or heroin, can't recall exactly which. He by all means had a happy and successful life/family.

He ended up getting horribly addicted & there was a good writeup/documentation of everything that happened. I'm having issues finding the article right now though.

Also, anesthesiologists, one of the highest paid, disciplined, and well respected jobs you can get, are also one of the highest risk groups for severe drug addiction.

I think your presumptions are quite incorrect and crass.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#69

Post by CincinnatiMan »

nielsbot wrote: post #62
beebmam wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not popular here on Hacker News due to its libertarian bent, but I'm of the opinion that we should even more brutal to illegal drug production, trafficking, and selling than what we currently are. I've lost 2 friends to fentanyl poisoning in the last 3 years, and I lost my brother 10 years ago to chronic meth use. I'm so utterly sick of this.

(Not a libertarian) I get the sentiment, but it's been shown that the war on drugs approach is expensive and ineffective. That said, I haven't lived your experience, so I can't really know what you're feeling...

>(Not a libertarian) I get the sentiment, but it's been shown that the war on drugs approach is expensive and ineffective.

Is there really a way to show that if the war on drugs never existed, the same number of drug users would exist, thus making the war ineffective? I'm not sure how one would prove this. It seems possible that without the war on drugs, the impact of drugs could be even greater, but again, hard to prove that.

Just an anecdote but in high school my entire reason for not smoking weed was because it was illegal, even though one of my friend groups was really into it.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#70

Post by notJim »

nostromo wrote: post #14
codr7 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decriminalizing use is the only sane solution; using and/or being addicted to a substance is not a crime, period.

I used to believe that — before I lived in a city that effectively decriminalized all drugs. The result has been a disaster. People on meth run around the streets at night causing chaos. Homeless people on heroin leave needles everywhere. People avoid transit and parks now because there is regularly someone losing his or her mind nearby. Long sentences aren’t the answer of course. But I do think that sending someone…

> By the way, free mental healthcare doesn’t actually work because many of these folks don’t want help and won’t seek it willingly. There needs to be a way to forcefully separate them from the addictive substance for a time, stabilize their drug crisis, and then help them find long term care

This is an inconsistent statement. In once sentence you say that free mental healthcare doesn't work, then in the next you posit that imprisoning them, then providing free mental healthcare is the answer. I think at the end of the day, people need to want to stop using drugs and have the help they need to do so. I don't think prison is the magic bullet for bringing about that change that you imagine it to be.

> People on meth run around the streets at night causing chaos. Homeless people on heroin leave needles everywhere. People avoid transit and parks now because there is regularly someone losing his or her mind nearby.

It's not realistic to expect only legalizing drugs to solve all your social problems. Why are there homeless people? Why are people having mental health crises on the street, and the only options are to ignore them, or put them in prison? I'm not sure what is meant by "causing chaos", but if they are committing non-drug crimes, why are they not being arrested?

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