He should have AGPL3'd this code, and put a standing offer for a royalty-free unencumbered free license to anyone who contacts him directly. The net result would have been the same, but his deadbeat client wouldn't get the code for free.
Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
61–70 of 136 posts
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts? Is there a comprehensive website or book that you can recommend? I am early in my career and have been on both sides of writing contracts. While I am figuring a lot of things out as I go it would be nice to sit down and wrap my head around this for good. Also, to the OP, is a few weeks really enough time? If those were 200 billable hours it seems like it's…
contracts usually aren't worth the paper they are written on. Because even if you win in court, it doesn't mean the guy will pay you...you'll still need to chase after the money.
Completing a project without a contract is begging to get shafted. It sets up an incentive for the client to demand extensive modifications and long-term support --- things you'd otherwise be charging for --- or even invites them to take your work and hand it to another contractor as a starting point.
Message board cynicism is a poor excuse for bad business practices.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#63Publicizing your work may be a fun way to 'get back' at an nonpaying client, but is it good for business? Would the professional thing to do be to simply drop work on this client and move on, or is any publicity good publicity for the coder? This is damaging to the client. Yes, they may have deserved it, but will future clients be discouraged by this behavior? Edit : To be clear, I'm not saying the coder was in the w…
This ensures that the coder gets some benefit from the code. At the very least he or she can use the code as example/demo code to show future clients. Yeah, its definitely not as good as monetary compensation, but its better than nothing.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
contracts usually aren't worth the paper they are written on. Because even if you win in court, it doesn't mean the guy will pay you...you'll still need to chase after the money.
Contracts are useful for spelling out the rights and responsibilities of each party so there are no misunderstandings later. But I agree with you, if the person you're contracting with doesn't want to pay you, you may well waste more than the contract is worth trying to get your money.
If your client ends up not using your work product, either because their business falters or because they reject your work, you stand a good chance of not getting paid --- contract or no contract. That's life in the big leagues.
If your client ends up using your work, your contract is going to end up plenty enforceable.
If your client ends up using your work and you don't have a contract, don't expect to get paid this year, and expect a painful obstacle course of unreasonable support demands. They'll pay you eventually, but since you've reduced the worst case outcome to "amount we agreed on" from "treble damages and site downtime", they have every incentive to drag things out.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts? Is there a comprehensive website or book that you can recommend? I am early in my career and have been on both sides of writing contracts. While I am figuring a lot of things out as I go it would be nice to sit down and wrap my head around this for good. Also, to the OP, is a few weeks really enough time? If those were 200 billable hours it seems like it's…
You can buy the MSA + SOW that hashrocket uses with its clients http://blog.obiefernandez.com/content/2008/09/master-service...
Be aware that if you client has more than ~50 employees, you are very unlikely to end up working under your MSA. By all means try, but be ready to have your lawyer review their MSA, because their MSA is going to be the basis for your project.
You might almost be better off trying to sneak in under the MSA with the "simplest contract that could possibly work" than you'd be by formalizing the relationship with an MSA. It is very possible to get a one-off contract executed, especially for one-off services. On the other hand, if you ignite the "MSA" neuroreceptors, you may find yourself far worse off than if you had simply gotten a Nolo-style work-for-hire contract signed; for instance, it's the MSA that's going to have IP clauses, noncompetes, insurance requirements, and things like that.
Be careful and don't wave things like "MSA"s around just because they seem like best practices. They are, for a company like ours or like Hashrockets; we're set up to negotiate and review MSA change bars. You on the other hand may not want to round trip with a lawyer several times just to do an $8000 PHP contract.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#66Publicizing your work may be a fun way to 'get back' at an nonpaying client, but is it good for business? Would the professional thing to do be to simply drop work on this client and move on, or is any publicity good publicity for the coder? This is damaging to the client. Yes, they may have deserved it, but will future clients be discouraged by this behavior? Edit : To be clear, I'm not saying the coder was in the w…
It's akin to how attracted the opposite gender would be to you, if they knew you (however justly) burnt down a (bad) ex's house.
I have seen a friend of mine retaliating on her blogs against clients who didn't pay on time, etc.
And I also know at least 4 prospective clients (honest ones, they always paid in full and on time to their contractors) who got discouraged because they had witnessed the "worst" of this friend when things might not work out between her and the clients.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#67The client wouldn't pay, so he gives it to them for free anyway?
It's probably pretty much useless to them if everyone has it.
Not necessary. If you had the source code to FaceBook, most likely you won't be able to do much of it.
The one who is focused on running a business on it - yes, would make a lot of it. Irrespective of who else has the raw code.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#68You could have auctioned the project's code.
Even on HN.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#69After spending 200+ hours developing the system, not a dime has been seen or given Freelancers should always try to get at least a deposit upfront. When I was freelancing, I would get 100% upfront for projects under $500, 50% upfront for projects between $500 and $2000. For projects over $2000, I would get 25% upfront, and then set milestones with payments attached. I had a $7500 project once where the guy made the f…
We're a small company relative to the kinds of companies who usually contract out dev or tech work, and we will pay something up front. Probably closer to 25% than 50%, but we wouldn't get mad if you asked 50%.
I'm saying this as a data point for people just getting started who might be nervous about asking for payment up front. If we'll do it, I'm sure many other people will too. It's a reasonable request.
On the other hand, just so you know: we never ask for payment up front for our services, ever. That's because we'd almost never get it. Most companies with in-house finance and/or counsel aren't going to pay you anything in advance.
If I were freelancing, I'd ask for up-front payment, but I'd let the issue drop for any company I knew was large/established enough to pay me; if I was in a relationship with such a company and doubted the project really had legs, I'd just walk from the project.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#70I wonder if he has the rights to use the code himself and/or allow others to use the code. The code is likely a product of a combination of specs, discussions, and his own work.