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Tech compensation in 2021

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Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#61

Post by m_ke »

websap wrote: post #52
m_ke wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a founder taking a significant pay cut and worked at early stage startups before that. Had a few hot new ML startups try to recruit me and their offers are nowhere near what my friends at FAANG are making. Last time I was looking for work 8 years ago the gap was nowhere near this large.

Not sure about founders, but if you're looking to hire top talent you need to pay them, give them the promise of meaningful equity. Software engineering is one of those professions where you don't work a 9 - 5 job. I'm constantly thinking about problems at work, while i do mundane tasks like cleaning my apartment, or doing the dishes.

Yes but unfortunately most startups can't afford to compete with monopolies. As the OP mentions I'd recommend anyone considering startups to value equity at $0 unless it's a late stage company with a lot of traction and top VCs backing them.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#62

Post by aynyc »

i1856511 wrote: post #40

How many people go into programming now simply for the money? More than 70%? What percentage of programmers would still be programmers if competitive salary was not a concern in life, and people were free to simply pursue their passions?

My informal poll last year of my friends suggest a 50-60% drop rate. I asked about 30 friends who are still coding for work. Almost 20 of them said they would not code anymore if they can find equivalent salary.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#63

Post by metalliqaz »

rootusrootus wrote: post #31

In other news, if you aren't in the valley or working for one of the big tech companies, you're probably making 100-150K as a mid/senior developer. There's a pretty sizable leap.

Yeah no kidding. I was shocked at the numbers in this article. A 15-year engineer in aerospace gets you ~120k.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#64

Post by [deleted] »

zz865 wrote: post #6

> Chris can expect to make $300k at a non-FAANG company, but nearly double that if they’re willing to compromise on that “no-FAANG” stance Is that really a good rule of thumb? FAANG pays double non-FAANG?

[deleted]

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#65

Post by nine_zeros »

beebmam wrote: post #23
KronisLV wrote: post #14

As someone who works in an Eastern European country, i also did a writeup on how much i've made over the years and how that figure has changed, while working for a local company: https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/on-finances-and-savings In short, this year i'll probably make around 18k Euros, in total. I guess that just goes to show how different the situation is depending on where you live and where you're employed.

Why are these numbers so massively different across the world? Do European companies generate that much less revenue? Or are labor unions in Europe just that much less effective at bargaining? Or is productivity that much lower in Europe? (I'm not sold on any of these)

The addressable customer market is one big difference. American companies sell to the world. Eastern EU companies are largely stuck with eastern Europe or EU at large.

The other difference is that smaller addressable market also means fewer problems to solve and thus fewer companies.

As an example, engineers in China, India and Indonesia are making way more that $18k these days because there are many problems to solve, many more companies competing for the same engineers.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#66

Post by missedthecue »

beebmam wrote: post #23
KronisLV wrote: post #14

As someone who works in an Eastern European country, i also did a writeup on how much i've made over the years and how that figure has changed, while working for a local company: https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/on-finances-and-savings In short, this year i'll probably make around 18k Euros, in total. I guess that just goes to show how different the situation is depending on where you live and where you're employed.

Why are these numbers so massively different across the world? Do European companies generate that much less revenue? Or are labor unions in Europe just that much less effective at bargaining? Or is productivity that much lower in Europe? (I'm not sold on any of these)

Or are labor unions in Europe just that much less effective at bargaining?

Ah yes, the famously powerful US software engineer's union.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#68

Post by m_ke »

Fordec wrote: post #53
m_ke wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I know a lot of FAANG people getting 500-600K packages. Makes it hard to even think about startups.

Yeah that's not a "competitive" difference any more, that's approaching levels of annual compensation nearly a full seed round for a whole startup. I used to buy into the whole risk vs reward of startups, but the numbers are far too biased towards founders and big tech salaries now for any individual contributor actually paying attention to the market to think about a startup job.

Other crazy part is how much startups are raising these days. Every other person that I talk to either just raised >$100mil or is about to.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#69

Post by zuhayeer »

Cool to see Levels.fyi mentioned here – a lot of people don't know about our verified salary stream newsletter as well, but it's a neat way to keep tabs on the market: https://levels.fyi/verified/ as well as our community (in beta): https://levels.fyi/community/

Last salary stream issue: https://email.levels.fyi/t/v/93ecf861-3d0c-47e9-84af-757bcc9...

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#70

Post by DrNuke »

HenryKissinger wrote: post #38
beebmam wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are these numbers so massively different across the world? Do European companies generate that much less revenue? Or are labor unions in Europe just that much less effective at bargaining? Or is productivity that much lower in Europe? (I'm not sold on any of these)

It's all of that. European tech companies are smaller than US tech companies, have lower gross revenue per employee, make less profit per employee. Taxes are higher in Europe, which disincentivizes risk taking and ambitious individuals. Labor productivity is also lower in Europe. Finally, Europe still has a culture where software engineers, cloud architects/products/managers/etc. are viewed as code monkeys and the pe…

> Europe also suffers from a brain drain to the US (and Canada to a smaller proportion). Many of Europe's best and brightest software engineers have already emigrated to the US, leaving behind the less productive ones.

Of course not, it is just mind numbing regulation coupled with systematic risk aversion. Many SV startups would never have gained traction starting over from Europe, neither financially nor for large-scale deployment authorisation.

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