And Firefox is a snap package now; the .deb will go away next release. Canonical finally managed to make me switch back to Debian.
> And Firefox is a snap package now Oh, ouch!
Oh, snap!
Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish Indri)
61–70 of 90 posts
Re: Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish Indri)
#62And Firefox is a snap package now; the .deb will go away next release. Canonical finally managed to make me switch back to Debian.
As a 20+ years Debian user I've never seen the added value of Ubuntu. Why use a derivative if you can get the real thing?
Ubuntu has a 10 year LTS support cycle and Debian has only 5 years.
While I often rebuild my servers much more frequently than that, it is nice to know that I could neglect things for a decade.
Re: Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish Indri)
#63Canonical has been doing some great work with Ubuntu. Though now I wonder if the desktop Linux is dead. With WSL rapidly improving with each release, how many devs really want to deal with the configuration of a Linux system?
I think the linux marketshare among devs is still increasing, even with WSL available. WSL is in fact one of Microsoft's attempts to lure back developers to their OS, or never make them switch.
For some folks, like you, this might actually work. But they've lost me as a user since more than a decade and I doubt I'll come back out of my own volition. Even with WSL, Windows is full of bloat, slowness, and I am fully exposed to Microsoft's user-harming antipatterns.
Re: Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish Indri)
#64Canonical has been doing some great work with Ubuntu. Though now I wonder if the desktop Linux is dead. With WSL rapidly improving with each release, how many devs really want to deal with the configuration of a Linux system?
I feel the opposite way. What does Windows have to justify the thousands of dollars necessary to put Windows on every machine in my organization outside of its deadeye security updates team?
Re: Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish Indri)
#65Canonical has been doing some great work with Ubuntu. Though now I wonder if the desktop Linux is dead. With WSL rapidly improving with each release, how many devs really want to deal with the configuration of a Linux system?
The reason I run desktop Linux isn't because it has a particular feature I want. It's to get away from all the Windows features I don't want — bloat, bundleware, ads, telemetry, forced AV, forced cloud features, forced reboots...
So WSL doesn't help me, really.
Re: Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish Indri)
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone whose only experience with linux is servers and Raspberry Pi, can you tell me what's wrong with snaps? I've only used them on a self-hosted NextCloud and my experience with them has been decent, but I see a lot of dislike for them on HN.
There's pros and cons. It helps developers because they aren't restricted to the distro's shipped library versions, they can build against what they need. It also confines the app to a sandbox. The downsides are that the packages end up larger because they ship with all of the necessary bundled libraries (which can also increase memory usage of the application because it can't share the libraries loaded in RAM by the…
> The downsides are that the packages end up larger because they ship with all of the necessary bundled libraries (which can also increase memory usage of the application because it can't share the libraries loaded in RAM by the native operating system), and there's a lack of trust that the developer can keep up with bundled library security updates.
This has basically been happening with browser debs anyway. Browser upstreams bundle their libraries, and distributions have increasingly been unable to unbundle them.
Re: Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish Indri)
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone whose only experience with linux is servers and Raspberry Pi, can you tell me what's wrong with snaps? I've only used them on a self-hosted NextCloud and my experience with them has been decent, but I see a lot of dislike for them on HN.
Background daemon that takes up CPU, proprietary store, slow startup, and automatic updates in the background. Flatpak is much better if you need some sort of sandboxing, or updates outside what your distro can provide.
Automatic updates are great, when I release security fixes like new Node.js version to Wekan https://wekan.github.io . It has worked well for me for many years.
Update install is very fast, with very small downtime, automatic database schema upgrades, etc.
Sandboxing is great, code can not write outside of app's own writeable directory.
Does Flatpak have any kind of automatic update ability?
Or is there any automatic update ability for some other package system on Linux/Windows/Mac ? Is Snap the only one?
Re: Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish Indri)
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's pros and cons. It helps developers because they aren't restricted to the distro's shipped library versions, they can build against what they need. It also confines the app to a sandbox. The downsides are that the packages end up larger because they ship with all of the necessary bundled libraries (which can also increase memory usage of the application because it can't share the libraries loaded in RAM by the…
You have skipped quite a few downsides. Anyway, the biggest one is that what was previously an app is now a separate environment that is sometimes hard to control. If I wanted to run an app in a sandbox, I would have run it in a sandbox. People have run into all possible problems with snaps in the past, it has been discussed on HN ad naueseam [0] [1]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24383341 [1] https://news…
> Anyway, the biggest one is that what was previously an app is now a separate environment that is sometimes hard to control. If I wanted to run an app in a sandbox, I would have run it in a sandbox.
I see sandboxing as a major upside. Users expect sandboxing by default nowadays. Some game they downloaded shouldn't be able to intercept your online banking browser session. Yet, in the traditional Linux desktop model, they can.
Having app sandboxing by default is long overdue. Not having it makes the environment a second class citizen for user safety and security when compared to iOS and Android, for example.
Re: Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish Indri)
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately the container breaks certain extensions (e.g. keepassxc-browser). And that's ignoring the fact that, at least on my machine, the flatpak fonts look terrible for some reason and I often run into issues with the Gnome theme not being properly inherited. I've been using the Debian packages supplied by Ubuntuzilla (despite their being hosted on gag Sourceforge): https://sourceforge.net/projects/ubuntuzilla/
Try flatseal and see if you can tweak the permissions. Re: terrible look, I face the same thing with Telegram (the mouse reverts to whatever is the default in Qt and ignores the system settings). I haven't been able to fix that.
This is what fixed the cursor for me (Linux Mint Cinnamon, HiDPI):
sudo flatpak override --env XCURSOR_THEME=DMZ-White
mkdir -p ~/.icons/default/cursors/
cp -R /usr/share/icons/DMZ-White/cursors/. ~/.icons/default/cursors/Re: Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish Indri)
#70And Firefox is a snap package now; the .deb will go away next release. Canonical finally managed to make me switch back to Debian.
As a 20+ years Debian user I've never seen the added value of Ubuntu. Why use a derivative if you can get the real thing?
For Docker base image I use:
- If I use Debian, security scan at Quay.io shows included packages have vulnerabilities
- If I use Ubuntu, security scan at Quay.io shows included packages do not have vulnerabilities