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iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

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Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#61

Post by Tagbert »

noneeeed wrote: post #11
flyinglizard wrote: post #5

Going be amazing for people working on PCBs, to read difficult package markings and to inspect solder pads instead of using a microscope.

Honestly, as someone who is starting to go long-sighted, this is tempting me towards getting a 13 pro (or Pixel 6 i it is similarly good). I frequently find myself using my phone camera to zoom in on ridiculously small text on things, but my phone has always struggled with it. Good phone macro will be a feature I would use all the time.

The iPhones have a special magnifier feature specifically for this purpose. With one tap it opens the camera, focuses close and does a little digital enlargement on a live image. It will be interesting if they incorporate the Macro mode in that feature soon.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#62

Post by tshaddox »

packetslave wrote: post #37

Here's the thing about iPhone photography (and Android too, I suppose): if you know what a DSLR is, or the difference between DSLR and mirrorless bodies, you are not the target audience . Apple isn't trying compete with a $3500 Sony A7R4 with a $1000 90mm macro lens. They're aiming for people who see the example "macro" photos and say "neat! I want to try that". Or the people who have already bought a Moment macro le…

I would have guessed quite the opposite: that people who know about and use DSLRs would be particularly interested in advancements in smartphone photography. I would have guessed that such people probably use their smartphone cameras more often (and more deliberately) than other people use their smartphone cameras. Heck, I bet a lot of these people even use their smartphone cameras more often than they use their DSLRs.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#63

Post by foldr »

defaultname wrote: post #53
sudosysgen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just not how lenses work, fundamentally. Bokeh is determined by two things, and two things only - the diameter of the aperture and the distance to the object. That's it. Also yes, the wide angle of the iPhone 13 is much smaller. Just stop down even further then. Cheap macro lenses in 2021 are typically around 24mm. I'm talking about the Mitakons and the Laowas of the world. Focus stacking is needed when you're…

"That's just not how lenses work, fundamentally." Go to the wikipedia page on depth of field and see how it is calculated. "Cheap macro lenses in 2021 are typically around 24mm" You claimed they were the norm. Now it's that they simply exist . "Focus stacking is needed" Focus stacking is needed when the depth of field is so small that the resulting photo would be unpleasant. This is the case for almost all macro phot…

I think you are right if you hold constant the CoC. In that case the DoF is proportional to the f number but inversely proportional to the square of the focal length (http://graphics.stanford.edu/courses/cs178/applets/dof.html).

However, for a smaller format, we arguably ought to reduce the CoC proportionally. And I think that reduction will end up canceling out one factor of f, bringing us back to the ratio of the focal length to the f stop (i.e. the absolute diameter of the aperture).

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#64

Post by angst_ridden »

sudosysgen wrote: post #45
angst_ridden wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most popular macro lenses for dSLRs are 60mm, 90mm, and 105mm. Of course, there are other focal lengths. I don't think I've ever seen a 24mm macro lens, unless we're talking micro 4/3 or some other non-35mm sensor size.

If you want to replicate the effect in the article, you'd be using a 24mm macro lens, yes. Mitakon makes multiple, and laowa makes multiple for all mounts.

I didn't argue that 24mm macros don't/can't exist, I'm arguing that they're vanishingly rare in the grand scheme of 355mm photography.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#65

Post by dylan604 »

marcellus23 wrote: post #44
dylan604 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're doing something under the hood without disclosing it but calling it something else, it's a trick. It doesn't have to be nefarious, but you are tricking the user into thinking they are doing something which they are not actually doing.

How are they not disclosing it? They talk at length, every single keynote, about all the software they build to process iPhone photos.

Do they really? I only ever hear about how its the best iPhone camera they have ever made. Yes, they talk about how their AI is able to adjusts exposure, color tone, etc. Do they actually talk about how a macro is taken in such detail as focus stacking etc? I tend to nod off during these videos, so I might have missed something.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#66

Post by marcellus23 »

dylan604 wrote: post #65
marcellus23 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they not disclosing it? They talk at length, every single keynote, about all the software they build to process iPhone photos.

Do they really? I only ever hear about how its the best iPhone camera they have ever made. Yes, they talk about how their AI is able to adjusts exposure, color tone, etc. Do they actually talk about how a macro is taken in such detail as focus stacking etc? I tend to nod off during these videos, so I might have missed something.

> Yes, they talk about how their AI is able to adjusts exposure, color tone, etc. Do they actually talk about how a macro is taken in such detail as focus stacking etc?

Is that moving the goal posts a bit? Your point was that Apple is somehow pretending they're not using software to create this effect -- if they say they're using AI/etc. to do it, it seems to me like they're not misleading their customers. I don't think the requirement is that they explain exactly how it works in technical detail.

I don't think they did any sort of deep dive on their macro tech, but in the past yes, they have gone into some detail about how their image processing works behind the scenes.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#67

Post by amelius »

packetslave wrote: post #37

Here's the thing about iPhone photography (and Android too, I suppose): if you know what a DSLR is, or the difference between DSLR and mirrorless bodies, you are not the target audience . Apple isn't trying compete with a $3500 Sony A7R4 with a $1000 90mm macro lens. They're aiming for people who see the example "macro" photos and say "neat! I want to try that". Or the people who have already bought a Moment macro le…

It's the other way around. People with iPhones look at professional photography and will say "I want that too", and they're disappointed if their iPhone can't do it, so Apple makes sure it can.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#68

Post by [deleted] »

packetslave wrote: post #37

Here's the thing about iPhone photography (and Android too, I suppose): if you know what a DSLR is, or the difference between DSLR and mirrorless bodies, you are not the target audience . Apple isn't trying compete with a $3500 Sony A7R4 with a $1000 90mm macro lens. They're aiming for people who see the example "macro" photos and say "neat! I want to try that". Or the people who have already bought a Moment macro le…

[deleted]

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#69

Post by packetslave »

dylan604 wrote: post #65
marcellus23 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they not disclosing it? They talk at length, every single keynote, about all the software they build to process iPhone photos.

Do they really? I only ever hear about how its the best iPhone camera they have ever made. Yes, they talk about how their AI is able to adjusts exposure, color tone, etc. Do they actually talk about how a macro is taken in such detail as focus stacking etc? I tend to nod off during these videos, so I might have missed something.

They tend to have sessions at WWDC about the underlying camera pipeline, for developers who care. Product launch keynotes are the wrong forum for deep technical talks.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#70

Post by Someone »

tshaddox wrote: post #62
packetslave wrote: post #37

Here's the thing about iPhone photography (and Android too, I suppose): if you know what a DSLR is, or the difference between DSLR and mirrorless bodies, you are not the target audience . Apple isn't trying compete with a $3500 Sony A7R4 with a $1000 90mm macro lens. They're aiming for people who see the example "macro" photos and say "neat! I want to try that". Or the people who have already bought a Moment macro le…

I would have guessed quite the opposite: that people who know about and use DSLRs would be particularly interested in advancements in smartphone photography. I would have guessed that such people probably use their smartphone cameras more often (and more deliberately) than other people use their smartphone cameras. Heck, I bet a lot of these people even use their smartphone cameras more often than they use their DSLR…

I think the group of people who know about and use DSLRs is too small to be the target audience of any of Apple’s smartphones.

Other smartphone manufacturers might be willing to do a product for, at best, a few million users, but Apple thinks focusing on fewer products is the better choice (for them, and, possibly, for all users because Apple can spend more effort on each design)

I would guess Apple’s target audience is everybody who wants to make better photos, whether they know about DSLRs or not.

Yes, they have RAW support, but I think they find that a nice to have, not a must for their product.

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