The history of what we call work • Hacker News Board

Re: The history of what we call work

#61

Post by taneq » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 12:23 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #16

jrochkind1 wrote: post #2

So I am partial to the idea of working "to do the minimum amount of work necessary to underwrite a good life." I think our culture is broken in several ways, and this sounds like a good approach. BUT, the romantisized ahistorical model of the Ju/’hoansi people (also known as !Kung San, "bushmen") the argument detailed here is based on... had it's high point in 1966 indeed, and is no longer considered reliable by anth…

> do the minimum amount of work necessary to underwrite a good life How much health insurance would you need for a good life? I can't help but thing everyone already does this, but some people have a different concept of "good life".

It's like advice to "use your judgement"... like how else am I meant to do literally anything? Different people just have different priorities.

Re: The history of what we call work

#62

Post by janandonly » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 4:33 PM UTC

the_greyd wrote: post #32

wayoutthere wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counter perspective is that some amount of degrowth will happen eventually. And in the west, decades of austerity have led to oppressive working conditions to the point people aren’t having children. We’re already seeing this effect on the workforce; my hypothesis is that much of the worker shortage is due to older workers dying from Covid or simply retiring and there aren’t enough millennials and Gen Z to fill t…

Anyone interested in declining birth rates, just take a look at the statistics in South Korea. 42% of the women in their 30s are unmarried ( https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/pxotg9/over_42_o... ). That's almost half! Our infinite growth systems will collapse, unless countries make it easier for women to raise a family.

At 27 my grandad had 0 qualifications, a house, a wife, and 3 kids supported on a sergeant's salary.

At 27 I just finished postgrad professional qualifications and share a 2 bed flat with 2 friends. I lose 65% of my income to taxes and rent and have 10sqft personal space.

Avg house prices are 9x salary vs 4.5x in the 70s, so it takes a long time to save up to get started.

Let's talk solutions. 1) Govt needs to stop propping up housing market 2) Govt needs to relax planning and allow more houses to get built 3) NIMBYs must be stopped 4) Workers deserve fairer wages 5) To do that, boomers need to pay more of their costs 6) More social housing

source: https://nitter.net/TypeForVictory/status/1443850540614668299...

Re: The history of what we call work

#63

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #41

watwut wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Office worker finds working in hobby garden freeing, strengthening body and sharpening skills. However, for farmer it is a lot of work and duty. Hunting for food, when you have to do it often is work like any other. No matter how much you like aspects of it initially.

I understand your point. Regular obligations exist in both sides. But when you operate as you wish for your own benefit, the basis is flipped. ps: Sincerely, I mentioned above about volunteering. I used to wake up at 6 in the morning to unload truck 3 times a day. For free. Yet, I woke up every day very nicely, went there free minded, felt like a damn game to me. I gained daily rhythm (important for health), daily ph…

> Being a free man requires a lot of effort, but gives you a lot. Seeking your own goals is powerful.

This is true.

I have written here, about my experience. After leaving my company of 27 years, where, frankly, I hated the work, even though they loved me, I started looking for other work; especially of a more technical bent (I was a manager).

I was shown the door at every company I applied to. In a few cases, they were nice enough to open the door, before throwing me through it.

So I have set up shop doing coding for a 501(c)(3). I don't make a dime, but I code 10 hours (or more) a day, seven days a week.

It's a joy. I have never been so happy.

Also, despite some insinuations, my work is not "hobby" or "hermit" work. The application I'm developing now, consists of three servers that are aggregated by a pretty large-scale iOS native app. I wrote two of the servers (one was the work of about ten years, the other, seven months). I've been writing the app for a year. I could have done it in a lot less time, but the folks I'm working with didn't really have a clear idea of how it would work, so we've been refining it as we go.

It would make a lot of Fortune 50 companies cry, and I'm doing it for free.

Re: The history of what we call work

#64

Post by agumonkey » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 6:46 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #63

agumonkey wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your point. Regular obligations exist in both sides. But when you operate as you wish for your own benefit, the basis is flipped. ps: Sincerely, I mentioned above about volunteering. I used to wake up at 6 in the morning to unload truck 3 times a day. For free. Yet, I woke up every day very nicely, went there free minded, felt like a damn game to me. I gained daily rhythm (important for health), daily ph…

> Being a free man requires a lot of effort, but gives you a lot. Seeking your own goals is powerful. This is true. I have written here, about my experience. After leaving my company of 27 years, where, frankly, I hated the work, even though they loved me, I started looking for other work; especially of a more technical bent (I was a manager). I was shown the door at every company I applied to. In a few cases, they w…

I wish I couldn't say "see ?" but it rings with my experience too much.

It seems to me that our society all revolves around an absurd pressure for housing~.

If you give a roof, clean water and some veggies to people, .. expect a solid 5x increase on every metric. When you stop playing shitty politic games, surprisingly people have more energy.

But since people are under threat they accept what the market offers and we're in this sad pool of misery.

UBI might never work but after my little volunteering and others [0] I was under the impression that we need a device of this kind to free people.

[0] did write a vuejs app for a small business while working an uber eats like gig, I was happy writing stuff for the pleasure of being useful and on my own terms. Deliveries were a social balancing trick, I get brain time off, stay on rhythm, avoid procrastination. And whenever I had an idea for a feature, I'd push a commit from my car (I took a laptop with me).

Re: The history of what we call work

#65

Post by kjkjadksj » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

prewett wrote: post #59

kjkjadksj wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its even worse in the US where over 50% of adults are single.

What percentage of adults are childless, though?

71%, up nearly 20 points since the 60s

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2017/08/more-adults-l...

Re: The history of what we call work

#66

Post by kjkjadksj » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #60

kjkjadksj wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its even worse in the US where over 50% of adults are single.

I wouldn’t take marriage as a proxy for children in the current US. The institution of marriage is simply not a good fit for a lot of us — I may still have kids, but I will never get married again.

I said single, not unmarried.