Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#61

Post by leephillips » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #47

leephillips wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not worth investing money in, because it will never supply grid power: http://progressive.org/op-eds/let-cut-our-losses-on-fusion-e... Here is another physicist warning about the hype just a few days ago: http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2021/10/how-close-is-nuclea...

It receives a pretty small level of funding, so I'm not quite sure there are many losses to cut. $2.2bn over 5 years is about $1.50 per person per year. It's comparable to the funding for the CPB.

It’s not much compared with some other budget items, you’re right. But a billion here, a billion there, and soon you’re talking about real money.

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#62

Post by d_theorist » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

nobody9999 wrote: post #43

d_theorist wrote: post #8

I used to be so excited about fusion, but then I actually learned more about it. Perhaps I'm missing something, but the benefits over fission seem underwhelming. It's about the same cost on a per-megawatt basis. Modern fission plants are totally safe. Nuclear waste is basically a non-problem, especially with the most recent technology. And fission has the huge benefit of being a mature, proven technology. What's the…

>What's the big benefit of fusion that makes it worth investing so much money? 4-20 times the energy density of fissionable materials[0] and fuel that's the most common element in the universe. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#In_nuclear_reac...

And what is the benefit of that?

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#63

Post by mikewarot » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

Can captured space alien technology based on element 115 help solve climate change? It's about as likely to generate real commercially usable amounts of power in the next decade.

At this point, we don't have new fission plants being built, and we're converting all the coal plants to run on natural gas, which is just going to jack up the prices for consumers who use it for heat.

The time to fix this was 5 decades ago.

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#64

Post by tylermauthe » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

The claims on nuclear fission being just around the corner are wildly exaggerated. Sabine Hossenfelder has a great video [1] on this topic. I want fusion to be real too, but focussing on small scale fission and solar is probably a better idea.

[1] - https://youtu.be/LJ4W1g-6JiY

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#65

Post by triceratops » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

himinlomax wrote: post #14

Nuclear fission is good enough, available right now, causes much fewer deaths than the alternatives, does not pollute the atmosphere, and accidents are extremely rare and nowhere near as dangerous as they've been portrayed. To wit, Fukushima: 1 dead from the nuclear accident, compared to 10000 from the tsunami.

Fukushima didn't kill many people, but it's projected to cost $187b to clean up.

Chernobyl has supposedly cost over $300b inflation-adjusted. Gorbachev wrote that in his opinion, it was a major contributor to the collapse of the USSR. Both figures are from Wikipedia.

Fission is safe, but even one accident can wipe out decades of profits. Is it still cost-effective when considering that?

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#66

Post by goodpoint » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

No. Almost all electricity that we generate will eventually turn into heat and get released into the atmosphere.

Even if nuclear had 0 environmental impact during production, which is absolutely not the case, we still must cool down the planet.

We need energy sources that work by CAPTURING energy that otherwise would be turned into atmospheric heat.

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#67

Post by leephillips » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #58

orwin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first fission reactor was in activity 10 000 years ago. Well, probably not even the first. Wind power was exploited since the 11th century? Or is it 13th? I'm not that clear on that. Solar cell appeared somewhat late in the 19th century. Fusion is real too, and older than all of those. The issue is the scale.

> The first fission reactor was in activity 10 000 years ago. Well, probably not even the first. What are you referring to?

Maybe something like this: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/natures-nucl...

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#68

Post by jazzyjackson » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

leephillips wrote: post #31

skywal_l wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think that the fact that you can use sea water as input and you get hydrogen as output is a huge advantage over fission? Add to that the fact that there is no fukushima style meltdown in a fusion power plant. If something goes wrong, it just stops. Finally, contrary to fission, fusion power plants will be able to adjust their power output as fast as gaz power plants. It takes months to turn on or off a fiss…

> there is definitely a few benefits to fusion. Absolutely. But these benefits are vastly outweighed by one benefit shared by fission, solar cells, and wind turbines: those things are real.

and man will never go to the moon...

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#69

Post by bell-cot » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

zohch wrote: post #38

bell-cot wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, nuclear fission power that works at scale - both on the technology and social sides - seems to be mostly beyond the capabilities of current human societies.

> Sadly, nuclear fission power that works at scale - both on the technology and social sides - seems to be mostly beyond the capabilities of current human societies. Well yes, because people who benefit from climate change do their utmost to ensure this is the case.

Which explains why grid-scale hydropower, solar power, wind power, etc. have all failed, new construction has all but ceased, and existing installations are being closed down...?

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#70

Post by FBISurveillance » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

Best time to invest into fusion research was 50 years ago. Second best time is now.

Nuclear fission is one of a few (if not the only) viable ways to have significant positive impact on climate change short-term (20 years).

Small rant on nuclear waste. I don't think it's a problem. I think it's a solution to fuel future generations of reactors (50+ years). I'd go as far as assume that e.g. Finland could import nuclear waste and store it in that new state-of-the-art nuclear waste repository. They would make money now to store the waste, and then make money eventually when tech is there to reuse it and generate power.