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MIT Abandons Its Mission. and Me

bariweiss.substack.com

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Re: MIT Abandons Its Mission. and Me

#61

Post by theossuary »

SyzygistSix wrote: post #35
theossuary wrote: post #7

> You may agree with some of my positions and disagree with others, but in a free society they cannot be considered beyond the pale. I think this is a bad take. In a free society people can consider whatever they want in order to judge a person. I do see the irony in watching those who traditionally used the mob to force conformity of minorities now experiencing it themselves. Saying things like "the threat woke ideo…

Do you see the irony in thinking this is any kind of improvement? It was wrong then and is still wrong. Which is precisely why unpopular voices need to be heard.

I never said it was right or wrong, it just is. Like currents in the ocean or solar radiation, we don't debate if those are right or wrong either. I see a lot of "well it matters because it's happening to me now!" in these situations, and I don't feel a lot of sympathy.

Re: MIT Abandons Its Mission. and Me

#62

Post by jaldhar »

dariusj18 wrote: post #58

Question: If someone wanted to do a discussion of race and Phrenology from a "scientific" perspective, is it canceling them to say, "Umm, no, those ideas a fully discredited and you're going to need to do a lot more work than a single paper and a pseudo Ted-talk to attempt to resurrect it."

If someone wanted to do a talk on exoplanets but weren’t allowed to because they also had views on phrenology would that be cancelling? That’s a more accurate analogy than the one you’re giving.

Re: MIT Abandons Its Mission. and Me

#63

Post by dragonwriter »

raxxorrax wrote: post #41
dragonwriter wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He directly equates DEI efforts to Nazi Germany: Specifically, he equated active racial, gender, etc. inclusion with active racial exclusion. Like the rest of his piece, it is part of a pile of nonobvious (but with a very high affinity for a particular political tribe, despite the author’s claim to be apolitical) conclusions offered without significant justification; the one place this seems to be noted at all os a…

> he equated active racial, gender, etc. inclusion with active racial exclusion. I believe this to be correct. Explain the difference. People use it to stick it to some people they don't like. They justify it with oppression. There isn't any technical difference. The alternative is to not do it. No option for contemporary progressive and national socialists alike.

> I believe this to be correct.

That's the thing about of posting bare conclusions without support. It appeals to those who already agree with you, while doing nothing to convince those who don't.

> Explain the difference.

One targets a group and excludes them from the institution in question, the other a seeks to prevent any group from being excluded from the institution.

> People use it to stick it to some people they don't like.

No, DEI isn't about sticking it to people that the advocates don't like.

> They justify it with oppression.

No, German racial exclusion want justified by past oppression it was justified by racial supremacist ideology (in no small part inspired by American White supremacy.)

Re: MIT Abandons Its Mission. and Me

#64

Post by prohobo »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #36
prohobo wrote: post #23

I'm starting to think that all of this is a weaponization of culture by elites to undermine political movements and stifle opposition to certain business interests.

no, its just an outcome of the age of information (i.e. post internet) where people who want to be activists around a particular subject have it very easy to create both international and inter-generational communities where everything they need is at their fingertips.

This is a leading question, but then why do all other activist endeavours fizzle out? For example: Occupy Wall Street

Re: MIT Abandons Its Mission. and Me

#65

Post by AnimalMuppet »

57844743385 wrote: post #29
57844743385 wrote: post #9

The only solution to this sort of thing is if institutions only accept formal, in person complaints from members of that institution. To do this they’d have to specifically recognize the problem of mob cancellation and decide to listen only to their own members.

A social movement has to form, one that rejects the faceless internet mob, and recognizes only people who exist here and now, physically in the present. It needs a name. Movements only catch on when they have the right name that instantly conveys the message.

How about "Face, Not Book"? That is, interact with me face-to-face, not on Facebook.

Re: MIT Abandons Its Mission. and Me

#66

Post by leereeves »

dragonwriter wrote: post #63
raxxorrax wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he equated active racial, gender, etc. inclusion with active racial exclusion. I believe this to be correct. Explain the difference. People use it to stick it to some people they don't like. They justify it with oppression. There isn't any technical difference. The alternative is to not do it. No option for contemporary progressive and national socialists alike.

> I believe this to be correct. That's the thing about of posting bare conclusions without support. It appeals to those who already agree with you, while doing nothing to convince those who don't. > Explain the difference. One targets a group and excludes them from the institution in question, the other a seeks to prevent any group from being excluded from the institution. > People use it to stick it to some people t…

> seeks to prevent any group from being excluded from the institution

No group is being excluded from the institution. That's been illegal for decades. Many individuals are being excluded because they aren't part of the "right" group.

The victims of that exclusion are mostly Asian and don't matter to "progressives". The author's proposed "academic evaluations based on academic merit" would open elite universities to tens of thousands of Asian students currently being excluded by race-based admissions.

Re: MIT Abandons Its Mission. and Me

#67

Post by HonestOp001 »

dfxm12 wrote: post #38
57844743385 wrote: post #4

What people haven’t grasped yet is you can’t fight the mob. There’s no recourse, no appeal, no tribunal, no council of wise learned people you can go to when the mob sets out to destroy you. You’re just simply fucked and have to accept you’ve been cancelled, your reputation is ruined and you’re “out”. That’s all there is to it and no-one has come up with a solution.

There's no recourse against the mob because the mob doesn't have real power. A mob can't cancel your speaking engagement at MIT. Only MIT can do that. Also, it's hard to assert that you're ruined. I get that this is an emotional response, just like an angry mob's, but rest assured that time has shown that's it's not really the case. Getting fired from one speaking engagement does not ruin a person. It's more like tem…

Where is James Damore? He became the celeb du jour. he was correct on most fronts and he was considered toxic.

Google did not want to deal with the mob. Both externally and internally. They came up with a lame reason to let him go.

We are currently seeing people okay with pulling social safety net benefits for choosing not to vaccinate. How can you guarantee that politicos will not buckle similarly.

Re: MIT Abandons Its Mission. and Me

#68

Post by raxxorrax »

jordemort wrote: post #59
raxxorrax wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what do you propose in its stead? Not playing that game. The first step is to remove racial discrimination for hiring and education. You don't need to correct for that because it will correct itself after some time, but only if we stop discriminating.

> Not playing that game. What game are you playing, then? > You don't need to correct for that because it will correct itself after some time, but only if we stop discriminating. How much time? Do we start counting from the end of the Civil War, or just from the 1960s? It seems like your approach has had plenty of time to prove itself and failed to produce results.

> How much time?

Until the negative effects of discrimination vanishes. That can take multiple generations and we have seen incredible steps in the right direction. The answer is certainly not more discrimination, that would be a ridiculous conclusion.

Re: MIT Abandons Its Mission. and Me

#69

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #65
57844743385 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A social movement has to form, one that rejects the faceless internet mob, and recognizes only people who exist here and now, physically in the present. It needs a name. Movements only catch on when they have the right name that instantly conveys the message.

How about "Face, Not Book"? That is, interact with me face-to-face, not on Facebook.

To "book" the faceless faces?

What about internet access only with government issued chipcard ID, two factor authorized, biometrically verified and geocoded via your mandatory smart gadget? Of course no posting at all with bad (social) credit!

Re: MIT Abandons Its Mission. and Me

#70

Post by andyxor »

rich_sasha wrote: post #44

I'm far from American culture, discussion, problems etc. but reading around the topics of woke, cancel culture etc. I really get the impression of the actions of mentally ill people (which I mean in the literal, not figurative meaning). If it's "just" a Twitter mob it's bad enough, but this is interfering with the very creating of national / world elites and shaping of fundamental discussions.

It feels like mass delusion, where otherwise rational, educated, smart people really believe in this woke nonsense in an almost religious manner and would attack you , even physically, if you're to speak against it.

I hate to bring up Godwin's law yet again but i think that's what some people felt in Germany when it was descending to Nazi madness with mobs marching outside.

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